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William Lane Craig diagnosed.
#11
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
(May 15, 2016 at 12:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Dr. Craig suffers from the Dunning–Kruger effect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2...ger_effect

This cognitive bias is when a, "relatively unskilled persons suffer illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is."

Quote:The bias was first experimentally observed by David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University in 1999. They postulated that the effect is the result of internal illusion in the unskilled, and external misperception in the skilled: "The miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."[1]


Quote:Dunning and Kruger proposed that, for a given skill, incompetent people will:[4]
  • fail to recognize their own lack of skill
  • fail to recognize the extent of their inadequacy
  • fail to accurately gauge skill in others
  • recognize and acknowledge their own lack of skill only after they are exposed to training for that skill

First, an example of Dunning Kruger syndrome, after which I'll disagree with your diagnosis of Craig. 

I knew this guy who worked as a carpet cleaner.  He was an adult, but he was never going to grow up.  That is, he had a child's knowledge and a child's maturity.  So I was surprised, one day, when he announced that he was going to be promoted to crew chief. 

How could that be?  I was skeptical, but I thought it would be tactless to ask "WTF" or "Who could be stupid enough to promote you?"  So I settled on, "Why are you going to be promoted to crew chief?" 

He answered, "Because I don't like taking orders." 

So that's Dunning Kruger syndrome in action.  It applies to my carpet cleaning friend, but I can't see applying it to William Lane Craig. 

Craig is smart.  He passes for smart, which requires some smarts.  He wins debates (not always, perhaps, but pretty often) with people that we know are outstandingly smart.  He's a great debater.  He does research and publishes articles.  He traffics in abstruse topics and acts comfortable with them.  I just don't see him as a stupid man. 

Admittedly, he says a lot of stupid things, but he's saying them to his followers.  Being stupid himself is not the same as treating his followers as stupid. 

I can't imagine that he hasn't had his errors pointed out to him again and again, over a period of years.  If he doesn't correct himself, it's not because he doesn't understand.  It's because his followers don't understand. 

Craig isn't stupid.  He just says stupid things because they work.
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#12
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
(May 15, 2016 at 4:12 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Really? Where are the threads?

Listening to certain pastors is more than sufficient. Such as Manning, who virtually obsesses over anything gay. But he's certainly only the most flamboyant example of gay sex obsession.
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#13
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
(May 15, 2016 at 4:44 pm)abaris Wrote:
(May 15, 2016 at 4:12 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Really? Where are the threads?

Listening to certain pastors is more than sufficient. Such as Manning, who virtually obsesses over anything gay. But he's certainly only the most flamboyant example of gay sex obsession.

Pastor Manning? Really?

The Guy doesn't even like black people, AND HE'S BLACK!
A couple of quotes from manning.

Ted Nugent Found A Black Pastor Who Hates African-Americans As Much As He Does
Quote:“You can train a black man to be a physician, you can train him to be an astrophysicist, you can train him to be a lawyer, but you can’t train him to understand the world.”
Quote:“There’s something wrong with the black man’s mind. There’s something wrong with his mind. He does not understand the world. He doesn’t. I don’t care if he learned medicine. He doesn’t understand the world.”
Quote:“You n****s are crazy…We’re never gonna get anywhere until we look into the mind of a black man. He doesn’t think correctly. I don’t care what he is. He could be a doctor, he could be an astrophysicist. The n****r aint got no sense.”
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#14
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
How is Manning's despising of black people a refutation of his despising homosexuals? He's a bigot, I'm sure he can find it in his tiny, shriveled heart to hate more than one group at a time.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#15
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
(May 15, 2016 at 5:15 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Pastor Manning? Really?

The Guy doesn't even like black people, AND HE'S BLACK!
A couple of quotes from manning.

I'm actually glad, you don't like him. It speaks very much in your favor. But he's not the only one by a long stretch.
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#16
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
(May 15, 2016 at 4:30 pm)wiploc Wrote:
(May 15, 2016 at 12:57 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Dr. Craig suffers from the Dunning–Kruger effect:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2...ger_effect

This cognitive bias is when a, "relatively unskilled persons suffer illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their ability to be much higher than it really is."

First, an example of Dunning Kruger syndrome, after which I'll disagree with your diagnosis of Craig. 

I knew this guy who worked as a carpet cleaner.

It's all relative, of course.  Compare yourself to that carpet cleaner and then do the same comparison between Craig and someone like Sean Carroll.  With respect to the latter, he is a professor of theoretical physics at the California Institute of Technology.  Craig was a communications major who went onto Bible college for his "graduate" studies.  Just do a comparison on the admission rates of Cal Tech and any Bible college.  Relative speaking, Craig is "unskilled".
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#17
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
(May 15, 2016 at 6:21 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(May 15, 2016 at 4:30 pm)wiploc Wrote: First, an example of Dunning Kruger syndrome, after which I'll disagree with your diagnosis of Craig. 

I knew this guy who worked as a carpet cleaner.

It's all relative, of course.  Compare yourself to that carpet cleaner and then do the same comparison between Craig and someone like Sean Carroll.  With respect to the latter, he is a professor of theoretical physics at the California Institute of Technology.  Craig was a communications major who went onto Bible college for his "graduate" studies.  Just do a comparison on the admission rates of Cal Tech and any Bible college.  Relative speaking, Craig is "unskilled".

But don't you think Craig knows that? 

Here's what he's good at: 
1. Making his followers feel like he has defended God well enough that they are vindicated. 
2. Obscuring the ways in which his relatively sophisticated god differs from their crude one, so that they can believe their god is the one he's been defending.

That's what he does.  That's what he's good at.  He doesn't pretend to himself that he knows theoretical physics better than Sean Carroll.
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#18
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
(May 15, 2016 at 8:15 pm)wiploc Wrote:
(May 15, 2016 at 6:21 pm)Jehanne Wrote: It's all relative, of course.  Compare yourself to that carpet cleaner and then do the same comparison between Craig and someone like Sean Carroll.  With respect to the latter, he is a professor of theoretical physics at the California Institute of Technology.  Craig was a communications major who went onto Bible college for his "graduate" studies.  Just do a comparison on the admission rates of Cal Tech and any Bible college.  Relative speaking, Craig is "unskilled".

But don't you think Craig knows that? 

Here's what he's good at: 
1. Making his followers feel like he has defended God well enough that they are vindicated. 
2. Obscuring the ways in which his relatively sophisticated god differs from their crude one, so that they can believe their god is the one he's been defending.

That's what he does.  That's what he's good at.  He doesn't pretend to himself that he knows theoretical physics better than Sean Carroll.

Judge for yourself:


Quote:Let me raise two concerns about this model. First, not only are the production mechanisms of such baby universes admittedly conjectural, but such a scenario violates the so-called unitarity of quantum theory by allowing irretrievable information loss from the mother universe to the babies. Stephen Hawking, apologizing to science-fiction fans everywhere, came to admit, “There is no baby universe branching off, as I once thought. The information remains firmly in our universe.”[18]
Second, Professor Carroll’s solution provides no convincing answer to the Boltzmann Brain problem. Since the mother universe is a de Sitter space in which thermal fluctuations occur and since baby universes grow into de Sitter spaces themselves, there’s no explanation in the model why there exists a genuine low entropy universe around us rather than the mere appearance of such a world, an illusion of isolated brains which have fluctuated into existence out of the quantum vacuum. These and other problems make Professor Carroll’s model less plausible than the standard solution that the universe began to exist with an initial low entropy condition.
Skeptics might hope that quantum cosmology might serve to avert the implications of the second law of thermodynamics. But now a new singularity theorem formulated by Aron Wall seems to close the door on that possibility. Wall shows that, given the validity of the generalized second law of thermodynamics in quantum cosmology, the universe must have begun to exist, unless, as in Professor Carroll’s model, one postulates a reversal of the arrow of time at some point in the past, which, he rightly observes, involves a thermodynamic beginning in time which “would seem to raise the same sorts of philosophical questions that any other sort of beginning in time would.”[19] Wall reports that his results require only certain basic concepts, so that “it is reasonable to believe that the results will hold in a complete theory of quantum gravity.”

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/god-and-c...-cosmology

Aron Wall is, if you look him up, a post-doctoral student in physics.  Craig, a communications major, has no business talking about "quantum gravity," an area which he knows nothing about.
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#19
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
I was going with WKS with a strong confabulation component.
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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#20
RE: William Lane Craig diagnosed.
(May 15, 2016 at 8:45 pm)Jehanne Wrote:
(May 15, 2016 at 8:15 pm)wiploc Wrote: But don't you think Craig knows that? 

Here's what he's good at: 
1. Making his followers feel like he has defended God well enough that they are vindicated. 
2. Obscuring the ways in which his relatively sophisticated god differs from their crude one, so that they can believe their god is the one he's been defending.

That's what he does.  That's what he's good at.  He doesn't pretend to himself that he knows theoretical physics better than Sean Carroll.

Judge for yourself:


Quote:Let me raise two concerns about this model. First, not only are the production mechanisms of such baby universes admittedly conjectural, but such a scenario violates the so-called unitarity of quantum theory by allowing irretrievable information loss from the mother universe to the babies. Stephen Hawking, apologizing to science-fiction fans everywhere, came to admit, “There is no baby universe branching off, as I once thought. The information remains firmly in our universe.”[18]
Second, Professor Carroll’s solution provides no convincing answer to the Boltzmann Brain problem. Since the mother universe is a de Sitter space in which thermal fluctuations occur and since baby universes grow into de Sitter spaces themselves, there’s no explanation in the model why there exists a genuine low entropy universe around us rather than the mere appearance of such a world, an illusion of isolated brains which have fluctuated into existence out of the quantum vacuum. These and other problems make Professor Carroll’s model less plausible than the standard solution that the universe began to exist with an initial low entropy condition.
Skeptics might hope that quantum cosmology might serve to avert the implications of the second law of thermodynamics. But now a new singularity theorem formulated by Aron Wall seems to close the door on that possibility. Wall shows that, given the validity of the generalized second law of thermodynamics in quantum cosmology, the universe must have begun to exist, unless, as in Professor Carroll’s model, one postulates a reversal of the arrow of time at some point in the past, which, he rightly observes, involves a thermodynamic beginning in time which “would seem to raise the same sorts of philosophical questions that any other sort of beginning in time would.”[19] Wall reports that his results require only certain basic concepts, so that “it is reasonable to believe that the results will hold in a complete theory of quantum gravity.”

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/god-and-c...-cosmology

Aron Wall is, if you look him up, a post-doctoral student in physics.  Craig, a communications major, has no business talking about "quantum gravity," an area which he knows nothing about.

Judge for myself?  I judge that Craig took a high school or college debate class, and learned how to use quotations create the appearance that he is winning a debate. 

This doesn't mean that Craig himself is stupid or deluded.  It does make him a professional at deluding other people.
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