I Have Proof the the Christian God Does Not and Cannot Eist

[Huggy Bear]

I thought atheism was simply a lack of belief...

[Cyberman]

Yes, so I believe...

[Rhondazvous]

I have hear Christians say that evil is the absence of god, just as dark is the absence of light. This does not refer to a physical absence, so they idea that there are places where god is not present spiritually is not mine at all, but the Church’s. Now when I point out that such an absence nullifies the omnipresence of god you want to back pedal. Cute.

[Rhondazvous]

My intent on first reading the KJV Bible was to learn more about God and become closer to him. My intent on reading the Bible again in a Modern English version was to salvage my faith in hopes that the King's English had confused me somehow. The resulting content differed greatly from my intent.

On the face of it, it is not 'irrevocably' true. It is, however, a cheap way to evade difficulties presented to you by other people by appealing to their motive

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_motive

Was he questioning my motive? What did he expect to find in the Christianity section on an atheist forum? I didn't come here to praise the lord. I came here to challenge the teachings of the Church. He has no valid argument against the content of that challenge. To wonder at my intent is a poor fall back.

[Incognito]

I was once able to destroy a Christian with two replies on a YouTube comment spat.

I was first asked him if "God" answered his prayers.

He said Yes, as long as they were good.

I then told him to "If that's true, pray to God to convert me to Christianity, I'll wait while you pray"

He logged out and never came back

Here's another of my arguments against God. God is supposed to be all good, all knowing, and all powerful right? If that's true, then why is there so much suffering in the world? Why did God let all the disasters happen? Why couldn't God just have made us not feel the sensation of pain? Why is there so much inequality in the world?

[Neo-Scholastic]

Ummm....I'm not so sure. In (2 Thes 1:7-9.) Paul seems to be saying just that. But what about Revelation 14:10? I think this is a case were all the relevant verses must be interpreted by the whole counsel of the Word. It would be very odd indeed if He didn't know the goings-on in Hell. What is clear is that people in Hell reject God's sovereignty and/or worship the Antichrist. God can still be present and eternally reaching out to people who are willfully blind to His presence and hardened themselves a to not receive His blessings.

Unless the angels Share Omni presence with God then, What is described in verse 10 is a punishment being measured out and witnessed for a time. Because it states that Jesus and the Holy Angels will witness this torture before them. Meaning as it is happening.

10 They will drink the wine of God’s anger. This wine is prepared with all its strength in the cup of God’s anger. They will be tortured with burning sulfur before the holy angels and the Lamb.  11 And the smoke from their burning pain will rise forever and ever. There will be no rest, day or night, for those who worship the beast and its idol or who wear the mark of its name.”


You also have to remember 2Thess 1: 7-9 is not a stand alone concept. All of the parables Jesus Himself taught concerning a separation from the saved to the unsaved (Wheat/Weeds, wheat/Chaff, Sheep/Goats etc..) All end with the saved being invited into where God is, and the rest cast out or separated from God. Not to meantion his direct teachings on the matter Mat 25:34-41, Luke 16:22-26 In both instances Christ describes a divide between God in Heaven and the tortured in Hell.

So in order to reconcile revelation passage with what Jesus taught I Imagine Jesus and the holy Angels are there to witness the great hord of unsaved being cast into hell and witness them being consumed by this molten sulfur. then they leave, because the only other option is Jesus and the holy angels standing watch for eternity, because the angels have never been scripturaly attributed with omni presences. There are simply where they are at the time they are there. Which means is they are to have an eternal presence in Hell they themselves would have to be in Hell.

Now that said, God being omnipotent I believe that He does indeed know what is going on in Hell, even if His presences is not there.

Good thought, at least one person is reading what i write.

“What has Athens to do with Jerusalem” –Tertullian

I’ve had some time to consider your exegesis. I think our understanding of the way in which God is “present” differs because we approach the problem from different directions. Hence the quote from Tertullian.

My general starting point is from rational reflection that turns its attention to the Word. My point is that God is the Necessary Being on which all created things depend for their preservation. As contingent beings, the damned, demons, and even Satan himself depend upon God for their on-going existence. In that sense only, God must be “present”. If God’s presence was fully withdrawn they would simply cease to exist as the annihilationists suggest.

I believe you start with the Word and reflect on the philosophical implications of specific revelation. I believe your interpretations of the relevant verses are reasonable. I have no issue with the verses you quoted. Indeed, the unfruitful branches are cut off and the chaff is burned up with unquenchable fire. May I suggest that these verses describe how the anger of the Lord and rejection of His blessings are phenomena viewed by the righteous and experienced by the damned rather than the ontological status of the damned?

[Mister Agenda]

Your thinking of hell in earthly terms not spiritual ones. Think more along the lines of those who 'burn' with lust and will not give it up even though it corrupts every part of their lives and 'separates' them from all the good things the could otherwise joyfully embrace.

That's nice, it would be nicer if you could convince your fellow Christians of it. They're the ones who came up with hell in earthly terms, it's being preached in churches around the country. I commend anyone who takes the 'lighten hell up' approach to that nasty myth instead of the literal one, though.

[Rhondazvous]

Your thinking of hell in earthly terms not spiritual ones. Think more along the lines of those who 'burn' with lust and will not give it up even though it corrupts every part of their lives and 'separates' them from all the good things the could otherwise joyfully embrace.

That's nice, it would be nicer if you could convince your fellow Christians of it. They're the ones who came up with hell in earthly terms, it's being preached in churches around the country. I commend anyone who takes the 'lighten hell up' approach to that nasty myth instead of the literal one, though.

It's like playing chess with someone whose strategy for staying in the game is to ignore check mate. Do they think we won't notice when they change the rules?

[Neo-Scholastic]

Your thinking of hell in earthly terms not spiritual ones. Think more along the lines of those who 'burn' with lust and will not give it up even though it corrupts every part of their lives and 'separates' them from all the good things the could otherwise joyfully embrace.

That's nice, it would be nicer if you could convince your fellow Christians of it. They're the ones who came up with hell in earthly terms, it's being preached in churches around the country. I commend anyone who takes the 'lighten hell up' approach to that nasty myth instead of the literal one, though.

Not quite my intention. If anything the pain is worse. For example, the physical effects of grief are minimal but psychically it hurts more than just about anything else I have ever felt when losing those I love deeply. Likewise, loneliness and depression.

[Rhondazvous]

That's nice, it would be nicer if you could convince your fellow Christians of it. They're the ones who came up with hell in earthly terms, it's being preached in churches around the country. I commend anyone who takes the 'lighten hell up' approach to that nasty myth instead of the literal one, though.

Not quite my intention. If anything the pain is worse. For example, the physical effects of grief are minimal but psychically it hurts more than just about anything else I have ever felt when losing those I love deeply. Likewise, loneliness and depression.

If we are to think of hell in spiritual terms then we must also think of heaven likewise. Not as a real place we go to after we die and our bodies are resurrected, but as a state of mind.

The problem is that grief and joy are natural human emotions. We don’t need Satan t experience spiritual hell and we don’t need god to experience spiritual heaven.