Are you with Leibniz or Cicero?

[emjay]

Since we're talking about Buddhism, it's interesting to note that in that belief system, when one attains Englightenment, one has sided with Cicero, since one will no longer be reborn to live through the trials of life. . . at least as I understand it.  So I guess in Buddhism, choosing Leibniz would mean you're still running on that big ol' hamster wheel.

Yeah, as as far as I know that's correct. Whether someone believes in reincarnation or not, the practical result of being Enlightened would be to no longer be attached to any form of desire for anything to 'arise', including the desire to exist for another moment... the will for continuity. So since in Buddhism there is no 'I' in the usual sense... the First Noble Truth is not "I am suffering. Understand my suffering. My suffering is understood" but rather "There is suffering [separate from self]. Understand suffering [separate from self]. Suffering [separate from self] is understood"... where the usual sense of 'I' is seen as coming from attachment to/identification with that desire... it's almost as if becoming Enlightened is essentially detaching from a never ending stream of universal consciousness, and therefore why - the theory goes - you would never return and conversely why others, still attaching their sense of self to that stream, would. I've never looked at it like that before... that's pretty cool... I hate to say it but I feel enlightened (but not with a capital E... just enlightened as to what the Buddha's theory was) 

But as for me I'm just happy taking the practical teachings of Buddhism for reducing suffering in this life. It's a great way to get rid of shit that's dragging you down... just detach and let it go. I don't believe in reincarnation or any other after-this-life effects like Karma, but I can understand a psychological use of the term Karma in this life... the sense of basically ripples... like that film 'Pay It Forward'... that acts, positive or negative, can not only affect your own mental state but also ripple out and affect those of others.

So anyway, I guess I'm on the fence now between Cicero and Leibniz. I don't know how far I'm going to go with Buddhism but if I could even just get rid of my second arrow thinking it would make life a hell of a lot more bearable and therefore perhaps worth hypothetically living again. But at the moment I'm sticking with Cicero.