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Hell and God cant Co-exist.
#21
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
(June 2, 2016 at 12:47 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(June 2, 2016 at 4:20 am)Socratic Meth Head Wrote: God is supposed to be Omnipresent, and Hell is supposed to be a seperation from God.

This makes no sense, they cant co-exist, its one, or neither.
Christians cant sacrifice God's supposed Omnipresense or hell in order to have a somewhat consistent belief.

The supposed paradox is created by not understanding omnipresence. God is present everywhere in the sense that he knows what is happening and sustains his creation in being. That would apply to Hell as well. 

If you then talk about the denizens of Hell being separated from God, that is simply in a personal/relational sense. In that sense, they do not have the experience of the presence of God. 

Imagined problem solved.

Is God in my asshole? Or does he just know what's going on in my asshole? Can I experience the presence of God in my asshole?
I am John Cena's hip-hop album.
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#22
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
(June 2, 2016 at 12:56 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(June 2, 2016 at 8:38 am)ChadWooters Wrote: This schoolboy objection must be the latest fad among atheists.

Sometimes I find it humorous to watch the threads get created on topics that have easy answers and then watch all the comments accumulate like something profound has been said. Most times I do not.

To me it just shows that they haven't really thought about it (whatever 'it' is) and really don't want to either. It's just a way for them to make themselves feel superior to believers. They pretend that atheism is the only rational approach then proceed to put their stupidity on display.
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#23
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
(June 2, 2016 at 1:09 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: To me it just shows that they haven't really thought about it[...]

The word you're looking for is "fantasize".
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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#24
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
I don't, in Steve's words, experience the presence of god right now. Does that mean I'm currently in hell?
"I was thirsty for everything, but blood wasn't my style" - Live, "Voodoo Lady"
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#25
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
(June 2, 2016 at 12:12 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: It's funny when two (or more)  believers can't agree on the same fantasy. Debating which fantasy is correct.

"Believers" is an extremely broad term. Just because two (or more) people believe in God, or even believe in Jesus, doesn't mean they're going to agree on all the smaller details. There's plenty of room for diversity among people of faith just as anything else.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#26
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
(June 2, 2016 at 1:19 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I don't, in Steve's words, experience the presence of god right now.  Does that mean I'm currently in hell?

Apparently. It's not so bad, is it? I don't see what all the fuss is about... Tongue
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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#27
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
(June 2, 2016 at 12:47 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(June 2, 2016 at 4:20 am)Socratic Meth Head Wrote: God is supposed to be Omnipresent, and Hell is supposed to be a seperation from God.

This makes no sense, they cant co-exist, its one, or neither.
Christians cant sacrifice God's supposed Omnipresense or hell in order to have a somewhat consistent belief.

The supposed paradox is created by not understanding omnipresence. God is present everywhere in the sense that he knows what is happening and sustains his creation in being. That would apply to Hell as well. 

If you then talk about the denizens of Hell being separated from God, that is simply in a personal/relational sense. In that sense, they do not have the experience of the presence of God. 

Imagined problem solved.

^Exactly this.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#28
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
(June 2, 2016 at 1:28 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: "Believers" is an extremely broad term. Just because two (or more) people believe in God, or even believe in Jesus, doesn't mean they're going to agree on all the smaller details. There's plenty of room for diversity among people of faith just as anything else.

Not "anything else". There's not all that much room for diversity, when it comes to things that are - you know - factual and testable.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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#29
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
(June 2, 2016 at 1:19 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: I don't, in Steve's words, experience the presence of god right now.  Does that mean I'm currently in hell?

My belief is that if you experience love and goodness, which I'm sure you do because you are a good person, then you are experiencing God. 

Hell isn't fully in effect until after we die, because now people still have materialistic distractions to fill whatever void is necessary. When we die, all those distractions are gone and we are left with only ourselves, or our minds/souls, whatever you want to call it. And if a person only has hate and contempt in their heart, they are going to be miserable.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#30
RE: Hell and God cant Co-exist.
(June 2, 2016 at 1:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(June 2, 2016 at 4:20 am)Socratic Meth Head Wrote: God is supposed to be Omnipresent, and Hell is supposed to be a seperation from God.

This makes no sense, they cant co-exist, its one, or neither.
Christians cant sacrifice God's supposed Omnipresense or hell in order to have a somewhat consistent belief.

Let me try to explain from my perspective. If you're actually interested in hearing it, and not just interested in criticizing us Christians for what you think we all believe in, regardless. 

Personally my belief is that Hell isn't a physical place, it's a state of being. It's when a person has fully and consciously rejected God after they die, which at that point means they have rejected love and goodness, since they learn at that point that God IS love and goodness. This is a self punishment because we are creatures of love, made for love, and we need it to be happy. So when we are so filled with hate and pride and greed that we reject love and goodness, we are only making ourselves miserable and empty. That is Hell.   

Hope that helps clear it up.

That's a relatively modern view, C/L.  Glad to see you are keeping up with your reading.   1999 wasn't all that long ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/18/arts/h...wanted=all

Quote:Hell Is Getting A Makeover From Catholics; Jesuits Call It a Painful State But Not a Sulfurous Place


Quote:Hell ''is not a 'place' but a 'state,' a person's 'state of being,' in which a person suffers from the deprivation of God,'' declared La Civilta Cattolica, an influential Jesuit magazine based in Rome and closely tied to the Vatican, in a long editorial in July.


See how easily this bullshit can be changed?
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