The evolution of pain.

[ignoramus]

That's because the mind and body is one. That's why we experience. Our mind, feelings, emotions, temperament all come along for the ride with the body.
For we "are" the body. Forget all this consciousness is separate nonsense.

[emjay]

That's because the mind and body is one. That's why we experience. Our mind, feelings, emotions, temperament all come along for the ride with the body.
For we "are" the body.  Forget all this consciousness is separate nonsense.

I don't believe consciousness is separate either... I see it as mirroring/reflecting the underlying neural network state... somehow it just is that neural network state. But in my view, everything that is represented in consciousness is already represented in the neural networks such that phenomenal consciousness seems to be completely unnecessary... not two sides of the same coin working in concert with phenomena somehow influencing matter... because that would be dualism... but rather brain - i.e. neural networks - doing all the the work and mind inexplicably tagging along as like a passive observer of the whole thing. Basically I think we should be philosophical zombies and I have no idea why we're not.

[The Grand Nudger]

 Basically I think we should be philosophical zombies and I have no idea -that- we're not.

FTFY.      

Maybe the zambies got a bad rap and we're simply trying to avoid association?

[emjay]

 Basically I think we should be philosophical zombies and I have no idea -that- we're not.

FTFY.      

Maybe the zambies got a bad rap and we're simply trying to avoid association?

Here we go again   

Is that how you see it then? That we could actually be philosophical zombies without even realising it? How does that even work? 

[The Grand Nudger]

Our concept of a definite border between a philosophical zombie and a sentient creature is simply nowhere to be found in evidence.   It's a declaration, an objection by fiat. Seems to be more of a sliding scale.  

There's no way to consistently apply an understanding of the evolution of pain, for example...without the provision that it's origins lie at the p-zombie end of that scale and are not fundamentally different from our own.

[emjay]

Our concept of a definite border between a philosophical zombie and a sentient creature is simply nowhere to be found in evidence.   It's a declaration, an objection by fiat.  Seems to be more of a sliding scale.  

There's no way to consistently apply an understanding of the evolution of pain, for example...without the provision that it's origins lie at the p-zombie end of that scale and are not fundamentally different from our own.

Okay, I think I get your first sentence... sort of   But what do you mean by the second? 

[brewer]

Are we limiting the discussion to nociceptive pain? There are other types of pain I don't think anyone has addressed pain perception. Maybe that's for another thread.

[Gemini]

I can (roughly) understand that from a neural network perspective but it still doesn't say anything about why or how there is phenomenal experience. If you're interested, me, Bennyboy, Rhythm, and ChadWooters discussed this at length in the thread Philosophy>Seeing Red. That thread was a lot of fun and yielded a lot of insight (I thought) and we've all got theories but in the end they're just theories 

That's a very interesting thread, thanks for mentioning it to me--I love those kinds of questions. Still working my way through it...

[emjay]

I can (roughly) understand that from a neural network perspective but it still doesn't say anything about why or how there is phenomenal experience. If you're interested, me, Bennyboy, Rhythm, and ChadWooters discussed this at length in the thread Philosophy>Seeing Red. That thread was a lot of fun and yielded a lot of insight (I thought) and we've all got theories but in the end they're just theories 

That's a very interesting thread, thanks for mentioning it to me--I love those kinds of questions. Still working my way through it...

Cool   In that case you'll find kindred spirits in me, Bennyboy, Rhythm, and Jormungandr... it seems we can't get enough of it either 

[ignoramus]

Who's "we"?

The body, the consciousness, or the neural network? He he

(Please, no more rabbit holes)