Reduced to a Piece of Clay: False Humility and Human Dignity

[Chad32]

It's a little odd to believe that a god made the most intelligent being on the planet, and expected it not to question.

Part of the reason I'm against intelligent design, is because the abrahamic god doesn't come off as very intelligent.

Consider who created that deity.

Yeah, this god of theirs, that is supposedly incomprehensible, seems to have some perfectly explainable, Human-like behaviors.

[ApeNotKillApe]

Might explain why the creator of the universe uses a lot of shepherding metaphors.

[ApeNotKillApe]

Because it says so in the bible.
.

Would you give me some verses so I can respond to your conclusion?

Also,

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

[Esquilax]

Because it says so in the bible.
.

Would you give me some verses so I can respond to your conclusion?

Remember that time he murdered everyone in the world bar one family because they were doing things he personally didn't like?

... Even the infants, who weren't?

Remember the time some kids insulted a guy he liked, so he had them mauled to death by bears?

Remember the time he had the option of outlawing slavery, but instead just set rules for it to benefit the tribe of people he liked best?

Remember the... yeah, you get the point. The entire bible is little more than a catalogue of god treating our world like a sandbox for his own desires, that merely asserts based on a circular standard that it's really out of love and justice, no matter what it actually looks like.

[Cyberman]

The verse doesn't have anything to do with human dignity, but rather God having the right to do what he wishes with his creation.  The potter has the perogative to form the vase into whatever shape he desires.

Of course; but if the vase doesn't come out as the potter expects or hopes, s/he'd be an idiot to blame the vase.

[ApeNotKillApe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6_9QmM6TfE

[Rhondazvous]

Would you give me some verses so I can respond to your conclusion?

Turned a woman into salt because she looked at something.

1. Killed 70,000 men because King David held a census.
2. Killed all Job’s children and expected his wife to be happy. Just forget the 10 children she gave birth to and watched grow up as if children are component parts that can be replaced when damaged.
3. Gave fathers instructions on how to sell their daughters into sexual slavery.
4. Ordered women to be put to death if they were raped in the city where they could have cried for help. Since they didn’t cry out that makes them accomplice of this crime against their husbands.
5. Jesus told his disciples that he spoke in parables so those outside would not be able to understand, repent and be saved.
6. Biblical god confused people’s language when they were getting along and working peacefully, just because he was intimidated by what humans could accomplish and he didn’t know that they couldn’t build a tower to heaven.
7. Became murderously angry when the Israelites had mercy on the people he had told them to kill.
8. Ordered Moses to slaughter the people of his father in law who had taken him in and given him his daughter when he was running from justice after killing an Egyptian.
9. Told his people not to treat their foreign slaves the same way they treated Jewish slaves
10. Holds all humans personally and eternally accountable for the sin of one man, but does not want to be held accountable for his own actions.

How long will you continue to defend the indefensible?

[Lek]

OK.  I agree that from your perspective, which is only centered on this lifetime on earth, he could look pretty evil.  If we see our existence as eternal and recognize the fact that we are often purposely evil and subject to justice, and will live forever, then we can view God as loving and just. He doesn't give us the punishment we merit and sacrificed himself to achieve that end.  I can see that is too much for you to understand or accept, so I'll live with the fact that you think God is evil.  I believe that when you come face to face with him, then you will know the truth.

[AFTT47]

The verse doesn't have anything to do with human dignity, but rather God having the right to do what he wishes with his creation.  The potter has the perogative to form the vase into whatever shape he desires.

Of course; but if the vase doesn't come out as the potter expects or hopes, s/he'd be an idiot to blame the vase.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Of all the absurdities of the Christian religion, this has got to be the most absurd of all and it should also be the most obvious.

Imagine a potter (who is supposedly a perfect potter who can do no wrong) angrily smashing all his creations because they didn't turn out right. But even the smashing isn't enough for him. He uses his magic to reassemble the defective pottery so he can smash them again. Even that's not enough to assuage him so he invents a place where the pottery is smashed and automatically reassembled and smashed again - for eternity. Very productive.

That's what Christians worship.

[KevinM1]

Who am i? I am a human, a sentient being. I have thoughts and feelings. I have opinions and awareness. I can recognize injustice and oppression.

Does it make sense to believe that god created me with all these wonderful faculties and then turned around expecting me to act like a lifeless piece of clay (as some versions render this verse)?

It is idiotic that Christians complain about evolving from apes dehumanized them, yet they are ready to accept this teaching.

The verse doesn't have anything to do with human dignity, but rather God having the right to do what he wishes with his creation.  The potter has the perogative to form the vase into whatever shape he desires.  Yes you have your thoughts and feelings etc. and you consider and act on those every day of your life, but as anybody who has a held a job knows, we must defer to others desires over our own at times.  If you see injustice and oppression then feel free to act upon it.

What is it with Christians and terrible analogies?

People can:
Change jobs
Start their own business
Go on strike
Sue employers for a variety of reasons (illegal termination, harassment, unsafe conditions, etc.)

All without fear of, you know, being tortured for eternity.

Also, the length of one's existence doesn't magically make immoral acts moral. "You murdered someone, but because you lived to 95 it's okay now." No, that's laughably idiotic. And, really, a pefect being shouldn't have to resort to evil acts to carry out his plan. Doing so implies he painted himself in a corner and couldn't think of a better way to proceed.