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Voltaire on Islam
#1
Voltaire on Islam
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*sigh*

Poor Islam has been misunderstood for so long.

How can these Islamophobes read the perfect book and describe it as "indigestible"?

I know! It's because he didn't read it in Arabic.

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#2
RE: Voltaire on Islam
Gandhi quotes on black people from XIXth and XXth century:

Quote:In an open letter to the Natal Parliament in 1893, Gandhi wrote:

“I venture to point out that both the English and the Indians spring from a common stock, called the Indo-Aryan. … A general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.”

Quote:At a speech in Mumbai in 1896, Gandhi said that the Europeans in Natal wished “to degrade us to the level of the raw kaffir whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness.”

Quote:Protesting the decision of Johannesburg municipal authorities to allow Africans to live alongside Indians, Gandhi wrote in 1904 that the council “must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location. About this mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians, I must confess I feel most strongly. I think it is very unfair to the Indian population and it is an undue tax on even the proverbial patience of my countrymen.”

Quote:In response to the White League’s agitation against Indian immigration and the proposed importation of Chinese labour, Gandhi wrote in 1903: “We believe also that the white race in South Africa should be the predominating race.”

Quote:Gandhi wrote in 1908 about his prison experience: “We were marched off to a prison intended for Kaffirs. There, our garments were stamped with the letter “N”, which meant that we were being classed with the Natives. We were all prepared for hardships, but not quite for this experience. We could understand not being classed with the whites, but to be placed on the same level with the Natives seemed too much to put up with.”

Quote:In 1939, Gandhi justified his counsel to the Indian community in South Africa against forming a non-European front: “I have no doubt about the soundness of my advice. However much one may sympathise with the Bantus, Indians cannot make common cause with them.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worl...ck-people/

Gandhi was a famous person - that must mean racism is fine...
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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#3
RE: Voltaire on Islam
(June 16, 2016 at 3:36 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Gandhi was a famous person - that must mean racism is fine...

[Image: quote-islam-is-not-a-race-islam-is-simpl...-73-42.jpg]

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#4
RE: Voltaire on Islam
(June 16, 2016 at 3:50 am)mralstoner Wrote: [...]

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I wasn't talking about muslims, I was talking about kaffirs (indian for "n*gger")... Gandhi said they were an inferior race, so it must be true.

Isn't this the thread, where we rationalize our prejudices, by quoting someone, who lived long ago, in the times when bigotry was the norm?
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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#5
RE: Voltaire on Islam
(June 16, 2016 at 3:56 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: I wasn't talking about muslims, I was talking about kaffirs (indian for "n*gger")... Gandhi said they were an inferior race, so it must be true.

Isn't this the thread, where we  rationalize our prejudices, by quoting someone, who lived long ago, in the times when bigotry was the norm?

FFS. Keep digging, I'm sure you can dig your hole much deeper...
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#6
RE: Voltaire on Islam
(June 16, 2016 at 4:05 am)mralstoner Wrote: FFS. Keep digging, I'm sure you can dig your hole much deeper...

Mmm-kay... But how about you start digging up, so that we can meet halfway?
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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#7
RE: Voltaire on Islam
Voltaire, in that, opined greatly upon the ideology of islam (which isn't a race)..and yes, he added a little bigoted flourish about turks.  The quoted bits from Ghandi were nothing -other- than casually bigoted remarks and pleas for racial privilege.......

Someone being a racist, or in both cases being considered..to be generous, a product of their time...does not mean that their positions can be waved away or disparaged upon that basis. Ghandi was a racist shithead who didn;t think much of black people, and he was other nasty things as well...but he had a point about british occupation, eh? Voltaire was a racist shithead who didn't think much of turks, but what do you think regarding his opinion -of islam-?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#8
RE: Voltaire on Islam
(June 16, 2016 at 9:15 am)Rhythm Wrote: [...]Voltaire was a racist shithead who didn't think much of turks, but what do you think regarding his opinion -of islam-?

I think Voltaire was on thin ice, being a free-thinker, non-believer in a country ruled by a catholic despot, who's power and authority supposedly came from god. He obviously had to present islam in the worst possible way, using words like "satanic", in order to placate his catholic patrons, especially that his opinion of - say - christianity, or judaism wasn't really all that different from what he wrote about islam, so it would be very dangerous for him to appear objective.

Quote:In a letter to Frederick II, King of Prussia, dated 5 January 1767, he wrote about Christianity:

La nôtre [religion] est sans contredit la plus ridicule, la plus absurde, et la plus sanguinaire qui ait jamais infecté le monde.[111]
"Our [religion] is assuredly the most ridiculous, the most absurd and the most bloody religion which has ever infected this world. Your Majesty will do the human race an eternal service by extirpating this infamous superstition, I do not say among the rabble, who are not worthy of being enlightened and who are apt for every yoke; I say among honest people, among men who think, among those who wish to think. … My one regret in dying is that I cannot aid you in this noble enterprise, the finest and most respectable which the human mind can point out.."[112][113]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltaire#Religious_views

"The most ridiculous, the most absurd and the most bloody religion which has ever infected this world" - well that seems to make christianity worse than even islam in Voltaire's mind.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like islam at the best of times, but I don't see how the Voltaire quote from hundreds of years ago brings anything into the discussion about islam in particular, since he was anti-religion in general.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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#9
RE: Voltaire on Islam
(June 16, 2016 at 10:02 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: I think Voltaire was on thin ice, being a free-thinker, non-believer in a country ruled by a catholic despot, who's power and authority supposedly came from god. He obviously had to present islam in the worst possible way, using words like "satanic", in order to placate his catholic patrons, especially that his opinion of - say - christianity, or judaism wasn't really all that different from what he wrote about islam, so it would be very dangerous for him to appear objective.
I don't think that he had to.  He could have said nothing.  Satanic had a meaning apart from catholicism (and still does..even if it might seem silly to us today to use it to describe what we might see as the pinnacle of evil).  In any case, he seems to have had no trouble speaking up in the excerpt you quoted.

Quote:"The most ridiculous, the most absurd and the most bloody religion which has ever infected this world" - well that seems to make christianity worse than even islam in Voltaire's mind.
Maybe, I'll never know, but what's the relevance?

Quote:Don't get me wrong - I don't like islam at the best of times, but I don't see how the Voltaire quote from hundreds of years ago brings anything into the discussion about islam in particular, since he was anti-religion in general.
Has islam changed, in those things he mentioned...since then?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#10
RE: Voltaire on Islam
(June 16, 2016 at 10:20 am)Rhythm Wrote: I don't think that he had to.  He could have said nothing.  Satanic had a meaning apart from catholicism (and still does..even if it might seem silly to us today to use it to describe what we might see as the pinnacle of evil).  In any case, he seems to have had no trouble speaking up in the excerpt you quoted.

The excerpt I quoted is from a letter, not a publication. It's difficult to say, if Voltaire could have said nothing about islam - the OP, despite providing the same quote 3 times, didn't find it prudent to include any context, so I guess we'll never know.

(June 16, 2016 at 10:20 am)Rhythm Wrote: Maybe, I'll never know, but what's the relevance?  

The relevance is, that OP chose one particular opinion of Voltaire, in order to create another fear-mongering sh*t-and-run thread about islam. Voltaire was pretty vitriolic about all religions, so choosing his quote in order to malign islam in particular is dishonest, to say the least. If there was an attempt at a discussion in the OP, rather than just the quote over and over - I probably wouldn't mind. Alas - there isn't.

(June 16, 2016 at 10:20 am)Rhythm Wrote: Has islam changed, in those things he mentioned...since then?

I don't know - have black Africans changed since Gandhi's times? I mean - for all I know, they might be living in "nakedness", trying to get cows, in order to exchange them for wives.
"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw
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