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Current time: March 29, 2024, 5:45 am

Poll: Clowns to the left of me...jokers to the right
This poll is closed.
Reasonable doubt is too high a standard.
40.00%
2 40.00%
Due Process must be protected
0%
0 0%
WTF?
60.00%
3 60.00%
Total 5 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Stuck In The Middle With You
#11
RE: Stuck In The Middle With You
(July 3, 2016 at 6:47 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: @Rhythm - I think it's a more complicated issue than what can be represented by the choices in your poll.
It may be, it just may be, but that's the ground the warring factions chose to fight over, and I'm not even paraphrasing them - hence the "WTF" option.

Quote:District of Columbia v Heller (2008) found that the US Constitution guarantees an individual right to keep and bear arms.  We could argue the merit of the arguments pro and con in that case, but regardless it remains settled constitutional law.  Furthermore as the decision came from the current court plus Scalia, it seems unlikely to be revisited any time soon.  It seems even more unlikely that the second amendment would be repealed any time soon.  

I think it's safe to assume that for the foreseeable future, gun control bills are going to be bound by that decision.

The question, in abstract becomes roughly - by what standard shall we use to deny by administrative action (i.e. without judicial oversight) a person of an individual right?   If Congress decides on one standard, is that one standard then possibly applicable to any constitutionally guaranteed right?

Personally, I'm willing to accept a lesser standard with respect to the 2nd than I am to the 1st, 4th and 5th (to name a few).

The question is, can that be done constitutionally?  I don't know the answer to that, and my answer to your question very much depends on what precedent such action sets for other individual rights being infringed by administrative action.

I don't know.  I wish I did.
On the one hand we have the prospect of shadow courts capable of creating a second class citizenry, which, imo, cuts deeper into the american ideal than our gun debate - and on the other we have the domestic proliferation of small arms to suspected terrorists.  Seems like a lose-lose for us no matter how we slice it. I don't know that the threat is actually real enough to do something like that, personally, assuming that we could.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#12
RE: Stuck In The Middle With You
"Clowns to the left of me/jokers to the right/here I am."

We need a "here I am" option.
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#13
RE: Stuck In The Middle With You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDeUUATkmVU

ETA: Replaced it with video with the correct lyrics.
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#14
RE: Stuck In The Middle With You
Fucking love that song.
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#15
RE: Stuck In The Middle With You
(July 4, 2016 at 2:13 am)Rhythm Wrote: On the one hand we have the prospect of shadow courts capable of creating a second class citizenry, which, imo, cuts deeper into the american ideal than our gun debate - and on the other we have the domestic proliferation of small arms to suspected terrorists.  Seems like a lose-lose for us no matter how we slice it.  I don't know that the threat is actually real enough to do something like that, personally, assuming that we could.

This is the conundrum in a nutshell.

The idea of someone being listed and denied rights without a hearing is offensive; and so too is the idea that we may be allowing terrorists to arm up. Even the answer I gave above, to make such a listing appealable upon discovery by the suspect, is in no way a complete answer.

I agree, for the time being, that threat is so small that listing and denying seems like an undue burden upon rights. Prophylactic law is rarely good law, so far as I can see.

I wish I had more insight to offer.

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