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Cynical view of happiness.
#31
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
(July 7, 2016 at 5:40 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Money will never buy intense happiness for me because I already have intense happiness. I am experiencing so much joy and pleasure and happiness and cheerfulness, just from my friends and my own genetic temperament: I've always been described as a happy person, and I am.

(Remember science says happiness is 60% genetics)

I have a very cheap computer and phone, I have internet, I pay electricity bills, water bills and rent.

Other than that it's 90 pence (UK equivalent to cent) microwavables meal plus one loaf of bread. A bed, clothes, shampoo, soap, showever gell and two sofas I was given. No TV, no nothing else but a bedside cabinet, a set of curtains and a few books and CDs I bought over the years. Oh and a couple of games that I haven't traded in for cash yet. My apartment is basically empty because I can't afford to buy anything.

But I'm super fucking happy.

What would money buy? A little bit of luxury perhaps, but I don't really need any posessions to make me happy. Not even posessions some consider essential... I just need the actual essentials: Stuff to survive on.

Oh by the way, I forgot to mention I have a fridge, a microwave, a washing machine, a kettle and a toastie machine in the kitchen. Basically all the essentials I just have no oven I have a microwave instead (that was kind of implied by the 90 pence microwavable meals though).

The one thing money would really give me is a chance to move to Scotland or America or wherever else... one day. When I'm ready.

This is all about my happiness though. I have plenty of positive feelings but I have plenty of stresses and anxieties too. Money would take away a lot of my stress and anxiety. That would be wonderful. But I'm perfectly content living with stresses and anxieties as long as I never lose my home because I'm so fucking happy Smile

So I would argue that there's a few reasons there why money would make you happy.

You could fly to america, have a better diet, be less anxious and stressed.

You could even go beyond these things and invest in some kind of recreational hobby.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





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#32
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
(July 7, 2016 at 5:38 pm)SteveII Wrote:
(July 7, 2016 at 3:49 pm)Whateverist the White Wrote: I'm a little surprised to hear a Christian say happiness is a choice.  Is grace also a choice?

To be gracious or to offer grace? Sure. Why are you surprised?

I can be pretty naive about Christianity but I was thinking divine grace.  If you believe that gets bestowed for reasons independent of your acts why would you assume any happiness at all is something you can guarantee on your own?  I was only ever a nominal Christian since I was an adolescent fifty years ago so please, set me straight.
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#33
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
(July 7, 2016 at 5:49 am)Alasdair Ham Wrote: I think happiness is about not suffering so much you can't experience joy, and other than that it's about experiencing joy.

When it comes to experiencing joy it's just about how much pleasure your brain will allow you to take from your activities. If you brain chemicals are being a dick there's nothing you can do besides medication, therapy, trying harder to enjoy things or find new things to do and socializing, especially with your best friends. I was depressed for years because I couldn't enjoy anything... you can't force yourself to enjoy something that's the problem.

I'd say my happiness at the moment is basically equal to how much I enjoy talking to my best friends and how much I enjoy posting on AF. Other than that it's about solving problems that cause me stress... and so far it seems my anxiety about not being able to solve them causes me more unhappiness than the actual problems. So far I have been fine. And as long as I never lose my home and have good friends I think I will always be happy.

I agree with the point about having a good time and joking around, those are the happiest times for me and I need I remember to invest more time in people who I can have a laugh with definitely.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





Reply
#34
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
(July 6, 2016 at 8:17 pm)paulpablo Wrote: I started thinking about this topic after reading the thread "Are you happy about your home town"  

The question I've been thinking about is somewhere along the lines of, how much happiness of yours is based purely on being better off than others?

I was thinking about this because I'm not from a very nice town, but I don't know if I'd be happier being rich and living in Dubai.

If I was moved over there as of right now and given billions, I'd be absolutely psychotically happy.  I'd constantly be thinking, wow, I made it out of that shit hole, none of my friends or enemies back home have experienced anything like this, it's amazing.

But if I'd be born there, and my neighbors were oil tycoons/property tycoons, they had gold plated diamond encrusted cars, 3 helicopters, a 13 bedroom house and I was in the same situation as them and I had been all my life, I don't think I'd necessarily be significantly happier than I am now.  Purely because I'd have no one to show off to.  All I'd be doing is keeping up with the other disgustingly rich people around me.  There'd be less stress certainly.

Now I'm not some hippy who says money doesn't equal happiness, because money definitely does equal happiness most of the time.

But I think I'd possibly be happier with a mediocre car, dressed pretty good in a room of guys where most people don't have a car and they're dressed slightly less well than me.  Rather than being a billionaire surrounded by other billionaires and everyone has everything.

An example of what I'm getting at is when I was in my early 20's I couldn't drive and I got on the bus, I was dressed pretty good and a girl checked me out, her friend said something to her like "If you weren't staring at that guy you might have heard what I was saying" So I knew she checked me out. I was happy because of that, more happy than I'd be driving in Dubai in a sports car where everyone else has a sports car and no one is looking at me because no on gives a shit.

Anyone got any thoughts on this topic?  I think it's pretty interesting.  I read an audio book where it talked about this kind of thing, how happiness is a feeling of comparative peaks and troughs.

I find that happiness for me is found in moments, not anything long-standing. Sometimes things might make me feel happy, like a new pair of jeans or shoes that are are nice and comfy. But, mostly, it is in what I am doing that I find these moments. Like spending hours in a darkroom attempting to perfect a print. Or, helping other people accomplish things.

How would you interpret this in the way of peaks and troughs?
"My imagination makes me human and makes me a fool; it gives me all the world and exiles me from it."

Ursula K. Le Guin
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#35
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
I don't think happiness is about being better off than others. It's about being better off in general. Being better off makes life easier and more convenient. It won't make you happy but it will give you a better chance at achieving happiness.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay

0/10

Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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#36
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
(July 7, 2016 at 6:21 pm)paulpablo Wrote: So I would argue that there's a few reasons there why money would make you happy.

You could fly to america, have a better diet, be less anxious and stressed.  

You could even go beyond these things and invest in some kind of recreational hobby.

I agree except with the bolded word. Correction: money would make me even happier
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#37
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
Money never made me happy.

In fact, having to work for it makes me very unhappy.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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#38
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
(July 7, 2016 at 9:06 pm)lisah Wrote: [quote='paulpablo' pid='1325605' dateline='1467850657'

I find that happiness for me is found in moments, not anything long-standing. Sometimes things might make me feel happy, like a new pair of jeans or shoes that are are nice and comfy. But, mostly, it is in what I am doing that I find these moments. Like spending hours in a darkroom attempting to perfect a print. Or, helping other people accomplish things.

How would you interpret this in the way of peaks and troughs?

The trough is when you don't have the perfect print or you fail in achieving it. It's also when you discover people haven't accomplished something they want to accomplish. And when you have some old jeans and shoes.
The peaks are achieving the perfect print, helping others achieve goals, buying new clothes.

If you had someone else or a machine constantly provide a perfect print and there was no challenge it and you were used to this all your life you would just become accustomed to automated unchallenging perfect print without much feeling of joy I imagine.

I imagine it's similar to the experience of being a hunter gatherer vs a constant fast food consumer.
If you constantly have fast food, it's not even a treat for you anymore, you just pay the money and it's there on demand and that's what you're used to then you will be annoyed when your fries are 4 minutes late.
Whereas a hunter will be ecstatic upon finally getting his kill even if it takes hours and they still have to prepare the kill later.
This isn't a scientific universally true example, I'm sure there are hunters who think I wish I didn't have to go through all this and there was a McDonalds around here. But I think the general premis is right, that people generally don't appreciate what they take for granted and happiness is peaks and troughs.
It could also be that you're viewing someone else's perceived trough while you're on a peak which makes you happy and appreciate what you have.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





Reply
#39
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
(July 7, 2016 at 12:28 pm)SteveII Wrote: Key to happiness is contentment and contentment is a choice.

If someone punched me in the face I'd feel discontent. Not out of choice but a natural inherent physical reaction to pain and an emotional reaction to a physical assault that's common on most healthy humans.


Are you ready for the fire? We are firemen. WE ARE FIREMEN! The heat doesn’t bother us. We live in the heat. We train in the heat. It tells us that we’re ready, we’re at home, we’re where we’re supposed to be. Flames don’t intimidate us. What do we do? We control the flame. We control them. We move the flames where we want to. And then we extinguish them.

Impersonation is treason.





Reply
#40
RE: Cynical view of happiness.
Contentment can be a choice, within reason.

Obviously sometimes it isn't a choice, but we can decide to focus on appreciating what we have more... if our motives be willing.
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