Zimmerman deserved to get punched, time to move on with our lives.

[CapnAwesome]

No he did not deserve it. We as a western society need to decide if we want street justice mob rule, or rule of law. I hate him and what he did, but he had a trial and we don't have to like the outcome. Nobody has the right to assault someone even in the face of being offended. Think about the things we say about religion and how many people would love to punch us because they don't like us. If we want less of what he did, it is a long term problem with laws and attitudes especially towards guns. We are entitled to our emotions but we are not entitled to take the law into our own hands.

Fuck the law. If the law isn't moral or good, I have no respect for it. You can't endlessly whine about law enforcement or gun laws or drug laws constantly on here and then say 'oh well we have to respect the law'

I won't feel bad if something happens to Zimmerman. He's a piece of shit who got away with murdering a person totally unnecessarily and now brags about it.

[paulpablo]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/g...he-suspect

"The dispatcher told me not to follow the suspect and that an officer was in route,"

I've just read the transcript.

Word for word it goes like I said previously.

The dispatcher told him they don't need him to follow treyvon.

That's just the first transcript I came across online.

[Minimalist]

And there was an officer en route.

And then, as always, the guy with the gun ends up telling the story while the bloody corpse remains silent.

Oh.... and the guy with the gun always says "I feared for my life."

No wonder they call this prick a cop wannabe.

[Tiberius]

Strange how you forget that Zimmerman provoked the entire incident and failed to cease and desist when told to do so by the police.

I didn't forget that, because it's categorically not true. The transcript from the phone call was published, as was the audio. The dispatcher (who by the way, wasn't a police officer) said words to the effect of "we don't need you to do that". That's not an order or even a command, it's more of a suggestion, if that. Zimmerman was perfectly within his rights to be there, and as a neighborhood watchman, to approach and challenge Treyvon Martin.

Yeah, according to the only witness, which was Zimmerman himself.

Wrong again. It's funny how Treyvon Martin's defenders have such bad memories, or at least try to distort the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_o...s_accounts

The only eyewitness to the end of the confrontation stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while [n]Zimmerman was yelling for help[/b]. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911".[114] He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Bolding mine.

Look, it's terrible that Treyvon Martin wound up dead, but at the same time, the evidence pointed towards Treyvon Martin attacking Zimmerman, and Zimmerman firing his gun in self defence. The injuries that Zimmerman sustained in the attack are well documented.

[Minimalist]

I guess we will have to disagree about what "an officer is en route" means in this context.

[Tiberius]

I guess we will have to disagree about what "an officer is en route" means in this context.

It's meaningless in any context. The police gave no order for Zimmerman to not follow Martin. Zimmerman is and was allowed to walk around that neighborhood, follow people, and challenge them. I believe on the phone call he believed that Martin was a suspect for a burglary that had happened in the neighborhood, and didn't want to lose track of him before the police arrived. Maybe he thought he'd catch him in the act of burglary, who knows.

The point is, nothing Zimmerman did or said he would do on the call is illegal, or was against police orders. The facts are, someone saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him up. Zimmerman sustained multiple injuries consistent with being assaulted.

[Tiberius]

Rather than having to repeat points I made last time this subject was brought up, I suggest everyone re-read this thread, where I addressed pretty much everything that has come up so far, plus more: https://atheistforums.org/thread-19907.html

[CapnAwesome]

Strange how you forget that Zimmerman provoked the entire incident and failed to cease and desist when told to do so by the police.

I didn't forget that, because it's categorically not true. The transcript from the phone call was published, as was the audio. The dispatcher (who by the way, wasn't a police officer) said words to the effect of "we don't need you to do that". That's not an order or even a command, it's more of a suggestion, if that. Zimmerman was perfectly within his rights to be there, and as a neighborhood watchman, to approach and challenge Treyvon Martin.

Yeah, according to the only witness, which was Zimmerman himself.

Wrong again. It's funny how Treyvon Martin's defenders have such bad memories, or at least try to distort the facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_o...s_accounts

The only eyewitness to the end of the confrontation stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while [n]Zimmerman was yelling for help[/b]. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911".[114] He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."

Bolding mine.

Look, it's terrible that Treyvon Martin wound up dead, but at the same time, the evidence pointed towards Treyvon Martin attacking Zimmerman, and Zimmerman firing his gun in self defence. The injuries that Zimmerman sustained in the attack are well documented.

Yeah, I don't have a terrible memory, I literally read that right before I posted.

What he is seeing there is the middle of a confrontation, not the start of it. So it's totally meaningless as to who started that confrontation. We have nothing but Zimmerman's word on it. We do have some circumstantial evidence though. I think it's a pretty hard sell to say that Martin, who was just walking home, wanted to start a fight that night. Zimmerman on the other hand was unduly following him, thought he was suspicious, has a history of being paranoid That's who I put my money on for starting that fight.  

So exactly like I said, the only witness to the start of the confrontation is Zimmerman. There is no good reason to believe Martin started that fight. Why would he? What makes the most sense to me is that Zimmerman started a fight, was losing and shot him.

[abaris]

But, did he really deserve it though?

Someone bragging about killing another (unarmed!!!) person is deserving of contempt. If he's deserving of being punched in the face is up for debate. Can't say I wouldn't be tempted to do the honors, but I can't say I'm endorsing it either. Knowing myself I would rather walk up to him and tell him what kind of lowlife he is in my opinion.

[Thumpalumpacus]

The point is, nothing Zimmerman did or said he would do on the call is illegal, or was against police orders. The facts are, someone saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him up. Zimmerman sustained multiple injuries consistent with being assaulted.

Firstly, while Zimmerman may not have violated police orders, he most certainly violated his Neighborhood Watch training:



That's from the NW's training manual.


Getting out of his vehicle to initiaite a confrontation flies directly in the face of this strongly worded advice. His refusal to identify himself as Neighborhood Watch to Martin probably had a lot to do with the situation going south, too.

If someone were following me around at night, and when I finally turned around and asked who he was and why he was following me he refused to answer, of course I'm going to assume a posture of alert defensiveness. If he thereafter gets out of his car and advances on me, how would I be expected to know his intentions?

Zimmerman screwed up virtually every decision he made that night, and while he may not be guilty of murder in the legal sense, due to his actions that night he is responsible for Martin's death.

I don't think Zimmerman committed murder, but I certainly think he carries most all the blame in Martin's killing.