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What would evidence of a God even look like?
RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
(August 20, 2016 at 6:03 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:
(August 20, 2016 at 5:26 pm)Esquilax Wrote: ... Yes, and that specific arrangement of empty space and matter is what we call "physical reality." That is how we have defined that: simply laying it out in greater detail doesn't separate it from its definition.

In fact, the empty space itself is still physical, since we don't define the physical world simply by whether or not it has stuff occupying it. For example, the space between the walls in my house is still physical space, it's not metaphysical. Hell, even the vacuum of space is still physical space, not metaphysical.
Agreed, but the contrast is important.  It is like calling a bubble made of steel, "steel" whereas a solid sphere is much more steely.

(August 20, 2016 at 5:54 pm)RozKek Wrote: What is this full, pure matter you're talking about? Sounds like shit pulled out of your ass. 

Ahh, so you agree god is predictable and in other words deterministic, that means your god has no free will.

Everything you're saying sounds like a bad LSD trip, there's no evidence nor logic to support what you're saying.

Really? Go and collect your nobel prize then :V

Aka QCD matter aka quark matter aka quark-gluon soup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark–gluon_plasma.

God has a predictable physical component, just like you....your body does not morph as you will it.  God has a self willed energetic component, just like you.....who knows what you are going to say, or who you are going to grow into being.

Why would discovering that God is bio-geometrically responsible for the procreation of infinite universes as finite expression of self awareness that is a regular and repeated pattern???  It's like being horrified that human's give birth to other humans instead of random animals and other creatures by random DNA aggregation.

Stick around, maybe it's in other threads I'm responding to.

I have to publish first and I have to refine my delivery before that.  What do you think I'm doing here?

And that correlates with god, how?

Interesting, very interesting and totally reasonable.

Did you forget to finish your question?

I'll wait until you publish it, good luck with that.
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RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
(August 20, 2016 at 6:16 pm)Esquilax Wrote:
(August 20, 2016 at 6:03 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Agreed, but the contrast is important.  It is like calling a bubble made of steel, "steel" whereas a solid sphere is much more steely.

Which is an inapt comparison, because you're making a distinction between steel and the space inside the bubble that doesn't apply in discussions of "empty" space as physical. In the case of matter, that empty space is still, itself, physical. A much more accurate comparison would be the difference between a solid steel ball and a hollow steel ball that has been filled with molten steel; we're talking about different forms of the same basic thing, not different things entirely.
So in your understanding a "physical thing" does not need to have any matter or solid component to it at all?

I use that comparison because there is hardly any matter in an atom compared to the space it takes up. Whereas QCD matter aka quark matter aka quark-gluon soup takes up all available space.

Like getting hit in the head with a fist sized wad of cotton going 20 mph has much less "physical" impact than getting hit with the same size and speed using uranium. The difference between atom's and quark matter is many orders of magnitude greater.

(August 20, 2016 at 6:21 pm)RozKek Wrote:
(August 20, 2016 at 6:03 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Agreed, but the contrast is important.  It is like calling a bubble made of steel, "steel" whereas a solid sphere is much more steely.


Aka QCD matter aka quark matter aka quark-gluon soup: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark–gluon_plasma.

God has a predictable physical component, just like you....your body does not morph as you will it.  God has a self willed energetic component, just like you.....who knows what you are going to say, or who you are going to grow into being.

Why would discovering that God is bio-geometrically responsible for the procreation of infinite universes as finite expression of self awareness that is a regular and repeated pattern???  It's like being horrified that human's give birth to other humans instead of random animals and other creatures by random DNA aggregation.

Stick around, maybe it's in other threads I'm responding to.

I have to publish first and I have to refine my delivery before that.  What do you think I'm doing here?

And that correlates with god, how?

Interesting, very interesting and totally reasonable.

Did you forget to finish your question?

I'll wait until you publish it, good luck with that.
An infinite quark gluon soup cannot be "imaged" or engraved because light does not pass through it and there is no border to make a form. It is "almighty" compared to atomic matter, being more metastable (it would eat atoms or breakfast lunch and diner) and it's gravitational pull would be of many orders of magnitude greater. An all consuming fire.

And this as an infinite body is the vibrational medium for the consciousness of God. The "spirit that hovers over the waters"

Yes I did forget to finish the question: "....why would that be considered a "bad trip"?"

If the appeal of consensus is what you need to be able to consider any new idea, so be it.
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting,
I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder
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RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
(August 14, 2016 at 5:14 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: I'm talking about any kind of Gods here. I notice that we, atheists, generally tell theists they should show some evidence for their claims. I'm wondering, is any sort of evidence even possible? What kind of evidence could conceivably prove the existence of a supernatural being that created everything?

What would that even look like? 

This goes back to why I became an atheist in the first place. The original argument that propelled my atheism seems very solid to me even now, and might even justify a position of strong atheism. Thing is, given the nature of what we're talking about with theism, I really don't think it's a question science(in the "traditional" sense) can or should even attempt to answer. I think it's more of a philosophical question, if you will.

My argument goes like this. If there's a God that created the Universe(the Universe being everything in existence) then this God is either a part of the Universe or the Universe itself. It can't be merely a part of it, since it created it, so it must be the Universe itself. But then, there's no use calling it God. You might as well do away with the shady language and call it what it is. Nature, Universe, Cosmos. Whatever your secular preference.

Thoughts?
The evidence for a god would likely be some sort of remnant, something that would be impossible for a primitive civilization to have built, something that could've only been erected by a divine deity. Such as a monolith that is maybe... 300 meters in height and is made out of solid uranium (no ancient culture knew of uranium's existence).
Reply
RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
(August 21, 2016 at 5:39 pm)sciencerulez Wrote:
(August 14, 2016 at 5:14 pm)Excited Penguin Wrote: I'm talking about any kind of Gods here. I notice that we, atheists, generally tell theists they should show some evidence for their claims. I'm wondering, is any sort of evidence even possible? What kind of evidence could conceivably prove the existence of a supernatural being that created everything?

What would that even look like? 

This goes back to why I became an atheist in the first place. The original argument that propelled my atheism seems very solid to me even now, and might even justify a position of strong atheism. Thing is, given the nature of what we're talking about with theism, I really don't think it's a question science(in the "traditional" sense) can or should even attempt to answer. I think it's more of a philosophical question, if you will.

My argument goes like this. If there's a God that created the Universe(the Universe being everything in existence) then this God is either a part of the Universe or the Universe itself. It can't be merely a part of it, since it created it, so it must be the Universe itself. But then, there's no use calling it God. You might as well do away with the shady language and call it what it is. Nature, Universe, Cosmos. Whatever your secular preference.

Thoughts?
The evidence for a god would likely be some sort of remnant, something that would be impossible for a primitive civilization to have built, something that could've only been erected by a divine deity. Such as a monolith that is maybe... 300 meters in height and is made out of solid uranium (no ancient culture knew of uranium's existence).
Good grief your guys set your bars low Dodgy

I wouldn't be found in the remnant architecture of the universe at macro and micro scales, no, it's found in some single anomalous object on some random planet with sentient beings that can wonder "WTF is that thing? Must be from God!" Rolleyes

I know you can do better than that! Cheers!
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting,
I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder
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RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
A thousand foot tall, radioactive phallus. Checkmate atheists.
Reply
RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
(August 21, 2016 at 5:53 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: A thousand foot tall, radioactive phallus.    Checkmate atheists.

Sounds like a big "F-you" from aliens...next!
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting,
I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder
Reply
RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
(August 21, 2016 at 5:51 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:
(August 21, 2016 at 5:39 pm)sciencerulez Wrote: The evidence for a god would likely be some sort of remnant, something that would be impossible for a primitive civilization to have built, something that could've only been erected by a divine deity. Such as a monolith that is maybe... 300 meters in height and is made out of solid uranium (no ancient culture knew of uranium's existence).
Good grief your guys set your bars low  Dodgy

I wouldn't be found in the remnant architecture of the universe at macro and micro scales, no, it's found in some single anomalous object on some random planet with sentient beings that can wonder "WTF is that thing? Must be from God!"  Rolleyes

I know you can do better than that! Cheers!

I'm talking about a structure that couldn't have formed any other way; something that defies the laws of physics yet is there - situation about to occur: Argue
All hail the FSM!  FSM Grin
Reply
RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
(August 21, 2016 at 6:00 pm)sciencerulez Wrote:
(August 21, 2016 at 5:51 pm)Arkilogue Wrote: Good grief your guys set your bars low  Dodgy

I wouldn't be found in the remnant architecture of the universe at macro and micro scales, no, it's found in some single anomalous object on some random planet with sentient beings that can wonder "WTF is that thing? Must be from God!"  Rolleyes

I know you can do better than that! Cheers!

I'm talking about a structure that couldn't have formed any other way; something that defies the laws of physics yet is there - situation about to occur: Argue
And we know all the laws of physics and exactly how they work and all the possible ways they can be worked together?

How is that any different from the God of the Gaps argument "Can't explain it, must be God."?

Why would some mysterious object prove a God?" What exactly do you have in mind? Are you imagining a little signature in the corner of "something in explicable" that says "I did this." God
"Leave it to me to find a way to be,
Consider me a satellite forever orbiting,
I knew the rules but the rules did not know me, guaranteed." - Eddie Vedder
Reply
RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
How about God writes a book explaining history, the creation of the world, and informs us what the future will hold.

After that He comes to live with us for 3 decades, models the perfect life and fulfills the prophecies stated in His book.

Sounds slightly more compelling than a giant rock.
Reply
RE: What would evidence of a God even look like?
(August 21, 2016 at 6:39 pm)PETE_ROSE Wrote: How about God writes a book explaining history, the creation of the world, and informs us what the future will hold.

After that He  comes to live with us for 3 decades, models the perfect life and fulfills the prophecies stated in His book.

Sounds slightly more compelling than a giant rock.

Nah. I'd be a bit more impressed by something more difficult for humanity to have fabricated at the time.   Tongue
I don't believe you. Get over it.
Reply



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