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What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
#31
RE: What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
I've known many x-tians and the majority never talk to god and have him talk back using English words and language.
How do you estimate one third to be doing this?
You're talking out you're arse.
More x-tians then ever before? Derrr, There are more people than ever before.
Did you look up the statistics for x-tians in the world?
There are more Muslims.
Give me one example in all of history of a person contacting the other side and I'll give you a schizophrenic case for each one.
There are 20 million a year.
Now answer one question.
Have you seen a doctor yet about the voices?
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#32
RE: What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
(August 29, 2016 at 10:25 pm)joseph_ Wrote: Materialism is dead nowadays as a serious philosophical theory. I think the Kantian realization that the world is dependent on our senses causes us to to doubt that we can contain the world in language or our thoughts. Science has not disproved the existence of other dimensions.


Why would people be unwilling to acknowledge the possibility that spiritual entities exist? I talk to them every day and they talk back to me, using English words and language. I am sure this is real and most societies have had some sort of concept of this. Why would people be unwilling to acknowledge there could be other life besides human life?

What you believe isn't relevant. What you can demonstrate to be probably true is all that matters. Voices in your head can easily be explained in much more plausible ways. I'm actually concerned about mental illness, when people say they hear real voices. It's quite possible you just think you're hearing voices, but really you're reworking your thoughts into speech in your head.

However, most sceptics don't make statements such as "X doesn't exist". They would say "There is no reason to yet believe X exists". So you're misrepresenting the position. Until such time as there is positive evidence for something, it can be safely ignored. Anecdotes, such as yours, are not reliable evidence.
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#33
RE: What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
^

Yeah. Here's the thing. People think that as soon as they introduce any half-assed idea, there's an intrinsic symmetry: you have to prove A, I have to prove not-A. They see this as at worst a Mexican standoff, and at best that their bullshit "evidence" trumps your lack of "evidence against."
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#34
RE: What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
(August 29, 2016 at 10:25 pm)joseph_ Wrote: Science has not disproved the existence of other dimensions.
First off, you need to familiarize yourself more with what science does. Science doesn't disprove anything. That's not its job.
Like creationism. Technically, there's nothing in science that disproves creation, it's just that there's absolutely nothing in science that proves creation. So if you go with it you're basically saying, "There's no evidence for this idea, but I'm going to choose to believe in it anyway."
So if you're going to believe something simply because science has no evidence to disprove it, then you are quite literally going to have to believe in everything.

(August 29, 2016 at 10:25 pm)joseph_ Wrote: Why would people be unwilling to acknowledge the possibility that spiritual entities exist?
I don't know. I'm not one of those people. I freely admit it's possible that some type of spiritual creatures exist. But "being possible" is not a good reason to believe they actually exist. I need some reason or evidence that they DO exist before I start believing in them.
It's "possible" Cthulhu, Darth Vader, Sauron, Tiamat, and the Demogorgon all exist.... so I should just start automatically believing in them?
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#35
RE: What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
(August 29, 2016 at 10:35 pm)joseph_ Wrote:
(August 29, 2016 at 10:31 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: Philosophy is not an actual science, dear.

Well maybe not, but philosophy establishes the definition of what science is based on argument and reason, rather than a magisterial argument (like citing a Scientific Academy's definition) which is based on an argument from authority.

Try to establish the bounds of science inside of the methods of one discipline of science and you will fail.

(August 29, 2016 at 10:34 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Why would anyone willingly accept such a claim without evidence?

But there is evidence, virtually all human societies have records and testimonies of people who had contact with spiritual entities. This is universal. Why be hostile to it?

Someone taking their experience or their opinion and jotting it down, is NOT evidence. All it is, is someone putting their thoughts down on paper. Nothing about that makes it true. Nothing about that equates to tangible, proven evidence via the Scientific Method.

Based on your reasoning, everyone should believe unicorns and leprechauns exist merely because someone, somewhere wrote down fantasies based off of their imagination.

Quote:Why not seek it out yourself? You can make contact with another type of life, I do it every day. I promise you it is real.

There's meds to help you. Again, just because you believe you can talk to imaginary, invisible beings does not make them real or factual.

Quote:I am not asking you to believe me,

Good because we don't.

Quote: I'm asking you to seek it out yourself because virtually all societies have testimony evidence and there is zero evidence to say that it is impossible.

Wouldn't that change your life if there were other forms of life besides humans? What if those spirits had a role in the origin of life on earth (as Richard Dawkins admitted was a possibility).

You are but one in a long line of many who prance in here trying to get people to follow along with your line of thinking and believing. This is yet another weak attempt at trying to convert logical, sane minded people to stupidly and blindly accept the unsupported, unverified, unproven claims that a magical sky daddy exists.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand. 
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work.  If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now.  Yes, I DO want fries with that.
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#36
What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
(August 29, 2016 at 10:35 pm)joseph_ Wrote:
(August 29, 2016 at 10:31 pm)Maelstrom Wrote: Philosophy is not an actual science, dear.

Well maybe not, but philosophy establishes the definition of what science is based on argument and reason, rather than a magisterial argument (like citing a Scientific Academy's definition) which is based on an argument from authority.

Try to establish the bounds of science inside of the methods of one discipline of science and you will fail.

(August 29, 2016 at 10:34 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: Why would anyone willingly accept such a claim without evidence?

But there is evidence, virtually all human societies have records and testimonies of people who had contact with spiritual entities. This is universal. Why be hostile to it?

Why not seek it out yourself? You can make contact with another type of life, I do it every day. I promise you it is real.

I am not asking you to believe me, I'm asking you to seek it out yourself because virtually all societies have testimony evidence and there is zero evidence to say that it is impossible.

Wouldn't that change your life if there were other forms of life besides humans? What if those spirits had a role in the origin of life on earth (as Richard Dawkins admitted was a possibility).


1. Who's hostile? I just asked what I like to think was a pretty reasonable question.

2. Testimonials (including your own personal) are not sufficient evidence to accept supernatural claims. I speak to Beetlejuice daily. Trust me, my relationship with him is REAL. Believe me?

3. Richard Dawkins asserts no such thing; don't be stupid.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
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#37
RE: What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
joseph_ Wrote:Voltaire claimed that religion would be dead hundreds of year ago, but still the vast majority of people profess belief in organized religion.

The USA was about 92% religious (86% Christian) in 1990 and atheists were about 1% of the population. Those who didn't identify with any religion (Nones) were 8% in 1990 and now they're about 20% (about 30% among Millenials). That's a huge change in just 25 years. Voltaire was an optimist, yet Maelstrom's claims (at least in developed countries) are correct, and your source verifies this.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#38
RE: What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
BTW, Joseph, thanks for at least participating in your own thread. Not everyone does that.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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#39
RE: What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
(August 29, 2016 at 10:25 pm)joseph_ Wrote: Materialism is dead nowadays as a serious philosophical theory. I think the Kantian realization that the world is dependent on our senses causes us to to doubt that we can contain the world in language or our thoughts. Science has not disproved the existence of other dimensions.


Why would people be unwilling to acknowledge the possibility that spiritual entities exist? I talk to them every day and they talk back to me, using English words and language. I am sure this is real and most societies have had some sort of concept of this. Why would people be unwilling to acknowledge there could be other life besides human life?

The scientism is strong in this one! (the thread, not yourself; I may have to bookmark this for future reference).

In regards to the OP... From my knowledge; I don't know that materialism is dead as a philosophy or worldview, there still seems to be quite a few who support it (even if they fail to offer much if any evidence for the assertion). I do think that you may want to be careful with the statement "Science has not disproved the existence of other dimensions", it may be valid, but I think as another mentioned, it is not an argument for anything. I also see no reason, to limit any evidence against, to science as the only method of gaining knowledge.

As to your personal experience, I normally approach such claims with a healthy skepticism. I believe that it can be evidence, and such a personal experience is often strong for the one who experienced it. And I also consider; as other's I'm sure have mentioned, that they can be psychologically induced as well. This doesn't mean that I do not acknowledge them, but I am tentative of the experience, and look for collaboration before giving any serious weight (both my own experiences, as well as testimony from others). When you get down to it, there are a number of details to consider when evaluating a claim of experience.

With that in mind, I have had a couple of times, where I very strongly felt, that God was speaking to me. In each instance, the result, was a drastic change in my views (apart from one where it was affirming). In a couple of them, I argued against them for a time. What I heard was clear and concise although I don't believe they where audible sound. It wasn't like a feeling or conscience. It is also collaborated by historic Christianity and scripture. There are other times, where I feel that God may be speaking to me, but they are not as clear, and cannot at least consider that it is my own voice, that I am hearing (I am fairly reserved in claiming something in God's name out of respect for Him).
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#40
RE: What philosophical evidence is there against believing in non-physical entities?
(August 29, 2016 at 10:25 pm)joseph_ Wrote: Materialism is dead nowadays as a serious philosophical theory. I think the Kantian realization that the world is dependent on our senses causes us to to doubt that we can contain the world in language or our thoughts. Science has not disproved the existence of other dimensions.


Why would people be unwilling to acknowledge the possibility that spiritual entities exist? I talk to them every day and they talk back to me, using English words and language. I am sure this is real and most societies have had some sort of concept of this. Why would people be unwilling to acknowledge there could be other life besides human life?

Good.  So you have proof.  Take recordings.  Get information proving beyond a doubt that you did not falsify those recordings.  Post them.
When I have solid, reproducible data that the voices are not in your head, I'll give it another look.  Until then, no.  Personal testimony is not data.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
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