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Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
#31
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
(September 17, 2016 at 10:38 am)bennyboy Wrote:
(September 17, 2016 at 10:30 am)Nymphadora Wrote: I will post whatever I want to, wherever I want. You dont have the authority to tell me otherwise. Your nastiness in telling others to "fuck off" is not appreciated.
I don't have the authority to stop you, nor would I if I did. However, your totally unnecessary desire to piss on a thread in which you have no intellectual interest is trolling. . . and THAT is definitely not appreciated.

Quote:I would love to engage in meaningful discussion with this guy, but as evidenced in his prior threads, he lacks the foresight or consideration  to respond to serious questions. His other thread was moved. So what. He still hasn't anyone in that thread who was looking for serious discussion.
The guy's thread wasn't moved. It was explained to him that he would have to wait 30 days to post his homepage and engage in discussion about it-- which point he got and agreed to. It was also suggested he start a new thread about a single idea. . . which he did. He took the time to type out an explanation of one idea, and wanted feedback. Instead he got fucking animal memes, insults, and comments about rock crushers.

YOU said it was moved.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand. 
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work.  If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now.  Yes, I DO want fries with that.
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#32
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
(September 17, 2016 at 10:38 am)Nymphadora Wrote: Double standard much? So its alright for you to be judgy but those who don't agree with you have to toe the line? No sorry. You don't get to be that way. If that's what you want, you can start up your own forum and make up your own rules.
Yeah, it is alright, and here's why-- I'm making an attempt to engage with the OP, and you are not. You didn't respond to anything in it, and I'm 99% sure you didn't bother even to read it. SO WHY ARE YOU FUCKING HERE?
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#33
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
Clearly someone pissed in your cereal this morning. If you don't like the content that I post, then feel free to report me or my posts.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand. 
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work.  If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now.  Yes, I DO want fries with that.
Reply
#34
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
(September 17, 2016 at 10:43 am)Nymphadora Wrote: Clearly someone pissed in your cereal this morning. If you don't like the content that I post, then feel free to report me or my posts.

YOU pissed in my cereal this morning.  And I don't need to report you, since I'm perfectly comfortable telling you to your face-- contribute to the discussion, or please fuck off.
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#35
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
(September 17, 2016 at 10:06 am)bennyboy Wrote:
(September 17, 2016 at 8:51 am)Nymphadora Wrote: I haven't seen your neutral pointer, but as I understand it, there are plenty of rock crushers available here.

I see a lot of mockery and very little actual understanding or any rational response in this thread.  It's too bad.

I might suggest a forum rule-- that those entering threads in the philosophy section actually be willing to do some philosophy.  Coming in and saying, "You're fucking dumb, and. . . ROCK CRUSHER!" is pointless, and unnecessarily disrespectful to those who might actually be interested in engaging in discussions about something intellectual.

I don't come into your cat meme threads and start shouting about Sartre, do I?

You want to suggest a rule against being pointless and/or disrespectful? Lol
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay

0/10

Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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#36
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
(September 17, 2016 at 10:16 am)bennyboy Wrote:
(September 17, 2016 at 10:13 am)LastPoet Wrote: I am sorry we haven't met your philosobabble expectations Rolleyes

Look, dude.  Just because you guys don't see value in a discussion doesn't mean you should guarantee that a thread will not be of value to anyone else.  This is the philosophy section.  So how about if you aren't interested in philosophy, you go fuck off?

The best part is that you spent 4 pages of bitching and moaning. Have you even replied to the OP? Quit trolling.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay

0/10

Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
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#37
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
(September 17, 2016 at 10:57 am)Losty Wrote:
(September 17, 2016 at 10:16 am)bennyboy Wrote: Look, dude.  Just because you guys don't see value in a discussion doesn't mean you should guarantee that a thread will not be of value to anyone else.  This is the philosophy section.  So how about if you aren't interested in philosophy, you go fuck off?

The best part is that you spent 4 pages of bitching and moaning. Have you even replied to the OP? Quit trolling.

Um, yeah, I responded to it right away, on the first page.  I expected more posts about the OP to follow, and had plenty of follow-up ideas, questions and comments ready.

I WOULD like to continue on with the OP discussion, but I already know from experienced that anything I say now will be buried in pages of troll bullshit.

How about this. . . I'll drop ALL the talk about trolls and appropriate comments, and respond in more detail to the OP, which I think was interesting, and I'll politely request that people who aren't interested in the OP please just not respond to the thread at all?

Does this work?
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#38
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
there were like 4 posts and you turned it into a 4 page bitch fest. If you just get over it people will move on.
(August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: "I'm not a troll"
Religious Views: He gay

0/10

Hammy Wrote:and we also have a sheep on our bed underneath as well
Reply
#39
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
And in all fairness, I read the OP. There was no sense to be made of it, so I mentioned rock crushers because they are a very real thing.
Disclaimer: I am only responsible for what I say, not what you choose to understand. 
(November 14, 2018 at 8:57 pm)The Valkyrie Wrote: Have a good day at work.  If we ever meet in a professional setting, let me answer your question now.  Yes, I DO want fries with that.
Reply
#40
RE: Has anyone seen my neutral pointer?
(September 17, 2016 at 12:15 am)Bunburryist Wrote: I got into a little – ahem - “trouble” over in the Atheists forum, so I’ll tip-toe into here and try to start again with something new – what, for me, is an essential philosophical idea – a conceptual tool, of sorts.  I find it especially useful when it comes to thinking about and understanding what I call “the sense story.”  "The sense story" is what I call that very familiar combination of a physical description and belief - the combination of -

--- physically describable processes in WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE a material world with  -

--- the materialist belief that everything we experience happens in material brains. 

That is, these physically describable things happen (part one of the story) and then – ta-da – I see and feel a world (part two). 
That's not exactly a "materialist belief".  We all experience rocks as hard stuff.  We all experience locality.  The combination of the two make us not experience anything.  It's a compelling experience no matter what a person may think about the underlaying nature of the world or our experience.  

Quote:The concept, or perhaps it really is better to call it a conceptual tool, is what I call the “neutral pointer.”  A neutral pointer is a way of referring to something while saying as absolutely little of what you believe about it as possible. 

For example, I could say – talking about an apple I see – “that apple there that is made of matter existing in material world in which I am a material organism whose experiences happen in material brains” – or I could just point (and, using my neutral pointer) and say “that.”
Right, and I'd go with the latter.  It's easy to see why we don't communicate using phrases like the former.  

-"4 pages of elaborate underpinnings and conceptual position statements....look out for that lion!"- 

If you say "that" and point to an apple..Imma get it. If you think that it is or could be a spirit apple full of world peace (or that it;s useful, somehow, to leave that door open by pedantically describing a "neutral") then maybe, just maybe, it's your belief that needs elaboration rather than the materialistic underpinnings, as you see them, of everyday speech patterns.

Quote:For me, the most fundamental, and most important way of using the neutral pointer is to refer to this experience we learn to call “the world.”  My neutral pointer for what we, as children, learn to call “the world” is “THIS EXPERIENCE.”  The colors I experience, the sensations I experience, the spatial aspect of those experiences, etc. – that’s “this experience.” 
I don't know if that satisfies even in the case of children.  At some point, we ask ourselves "this experience" -of what?  At that point we have no choice but to consider the rocks and locality.  

Q and A time:


Quote:For me, "physical world" is also a neutral pointer.  I use it to “point” to whatever reality physical models ACTUALLY DESCRIBE.  (I do not know what reality physical models describe.)  Maybe this experience is the physical world.  Maybe, if materialists are right, the physical world is a material world in which there exists a material brain in which this experience happens.  Maybe the physical world is something happening in “the mind of God” or in a “cosmic computer.”
There would be materialists who were "right" about your brain and experience (obviously the important part as you repeated many of the questions about it) even if it were "the mind of god" or a cosmic computer.  

Quote:Perhaps the most important role of the neutral pointer is that it doesn't carry the "I know what this world is" assumption that phrases like "the universe," "the material world," "the physical world" do.  These phrases carry ALL KINDS of ontological baggage.  There is, for me, an implicit "and what is this really" aspect to it.  It really helps me break out of the habitual materialist thinking we can't help but grow up with.
Why couldn't you help but grow up with it?  I doubt you knew what materialism was as a child...I think you may not now now, as we speak.
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