Soul or souless?

[lrh9]

Problem is the characteristics of this alleged 'soul' have ostensibly been shown to be properties of the brain/mind.

Memory, perception, emotion, personality, mannerisms, consciousness, morality, beliefs, etc.

Take away all that and any alleged 'soul' is nothing.

[The Omnissiunt One]

Like I've said, the soul (mainstream Christian understanding) is the esssence of a person not in any way physical. Yes it's a supernatural thing and as such can't be evidenced empirically.

What is the 'essence of a person'? This is too vague to have any meaning. If it does not constitute a person's personality, how is any soul distinct from any other? How is it related to the person from whom it came?

[Bull Poopie]

Like I've said, the soul (mainstream Christian understanding) is the esssence of a person not in any way physical. Yes it's a supernatural thing and as such can't be evidenced empirically.

The majority of Christians understand the soul as an ontological reality distinct from, yet integrally connected with, the body. Its characteristics are described in moral, spiritual, and philosophical terms. When people die their souls will be judged by God and determined to spend an eternity in heaven or in hell. Though all branches of Christianity –Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox, Evangelical or mainline Protestants – teach that Jesus Christ plays a decisive role in the salvation process, the specifics of that role and the part played by individual persons or ecclesiastical rituals and relationships, is a matter of wide diversity in official church teaching, theological speculation and popular practice. Some Christians believe that if one has not repented of one's sins and trusted in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, he/she will go to hell and suffer eternal separation from God. Variations also exist on this theme, e.g. some which hold that the unrighteous soul will be destroyed instead of suffering eternally. Believers will inherit eternal life in heaven and enjoy eternal fellowship with God. There is also a belief that babies (including the unborn) and those with cognitive or mental impairments who have died will be received into heaven on the basis of God's grace through the sacrifice of Jesus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul#Christianity

Then you helped me to realize, Frodo that there is not soul.

1) I was roman catholic before I became an atheist and that the catholics believe in hell and heaven and the after life. If there is no heaven, hell or god then how can their be a soul? There I have never known any physical evidence that there is a soul.

2) What Irh says actually makes sense because the brain is what controls the body, it helps us to think, rationalize and to make judgments on our own, if that is impared some how then we can't do so, do you see what I am saying? that is my thought that there could be evidence that the brain could be a soul. I am so confused but yet light bells are dinging here and there.

To me the soul has always been a religious debate wether it exist. It has not been proven physicaly though people think that aprehitions or ghost could be a soul. I have never seen one or heard of one and praticaly I donot trust the crap on television ( slim buckets, I'd say, lol) anyways I could see you point, frodo but yet it doesn't stand it's grounds in evidence :-P

[Paul the Human]

The 'soul' is what people call their misunderstood perception of 'self'. When you turn your thoughts inward and think of yourself (your idea of 'me'), it is easy to imagine that this 'me' exists somewhere outside the body. It actually feels separate from the physical body. It is not, of course... it is completely generated by the brain the central nervous system. When you die, it ceases to be generated, and therefore ceases to 'exist'.

[Bull Poopie]

The 'soul' is what people call their misunderstood perception of 'self'. When you turn your thoughts inward and think of yourself (your idea of 'me'), it is easy to imagine that this 'me' exists somewhere outside the body. It actually feels separate from the physical body. It is not, of course... it is completely generated by the brain the central nervous system. When you die, it ceases to be generated, and therefore ceases to 'exist'.

Paul,

So that means that the soul doesn't exist because it is not religious but it part of myself? I think I am understanding "sighs"

[downbeatplumb]

In olden times people used to believe that their inner monologue was god/gods talking to them,( you can see this all the time in Homers ilead).
Later opinion altered to make the inner monologue out as an entity that was you but controlling you, a soul sepperate from the body.
If you have the concept of a sepperate entity that is still in some way you, then it can go off and have fun times without you.
My wife believes this and used to tell me of the spiritual expeditions she used to have when she was asleep(sigh)

[fr0d0]

Problem is the characteristics of this alleged 'soul' have ostensibly been shown to be properties of the brain/mind.

Memory, perception, emotion, personality, mannerisms, consciousness, morality, beliefs, etc.

Take away all that and any alleged 'soul' is nothing.

Yet all of them are clearly not anything to do with the soul to me, and I'd suggest nothing at all to do with the Christian concept. You've said already lrh9 that your definition is not the same as mine. I don't discount your opinion at all lrh9, it's an interesting idea.

[Rhizomorph13]

In olden times people used to believe that their inner monologue was god/gods talking to them,( you can see this all the time in Homers ilead).
Later opinion altered to make the inner monologue out as an entity that was you but controlling you, a soul sepperate from the body.
If you have the concept of a sepperate entity that is still in some way you, then it can go off and have fun times without you.
My wife believes this and used to tell me of the spiritual expeditions she used to have when she was asleep(sigh)

Well put but you missed one step between gods talking to people and our magic astral double...

The homunculus. It is one of my favorite silly inventions of mankind right up there with ether to explain gravity. The homunculus was supposed to be a little person that lived in our heads that caused life, another part of homunculus ideas was that they lived in sperm to transmit the person into the body. They are very similar in concept to a soul but they are defined as physical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homunculus

To me it brings to mind our early concepts of gods that lived up on the mountains. When we climbed the mountains the gods moved to the sky, stars and some migrated to the seas where great Cthulu lies dreaming. Now we are pretty certain there are no gods in the sky, stars, or the sea much as we know that gravity is not caused by some ether pushing down that necessitates a super-ether to push the ether. Why isn't the brain enough to explain where thoughts come from? Is there a super soul that moves the soul to motivate the brain to send impulses to our muscles?

Rhizo

[lrh9]

Problem is the characteristics of this alleged 'soul' have ostensibly been shown to be properties of the brain/mind.

Memory, perception, emotion, personality, mannerisms, consciousness, morality, beliefs, etc.

Take away all that and any alleged 'soul' is nothing.

Yet all of them are clearly not anything to do with the soul to me, and I'd suggest nothing at all to do with the Christian concept. You've said already lrh9 that your definition is not the same as mine. I don't discount your opinion at all lrh9, it's an interesting idea.

Kind of hard to feel Hell when you can no longer feel because your brain and body have decomposed.
Kind of hard to have a personal relationship with a God when you can no longer memorize, think, or even exist as an emotional and personality rich being because your brain and body have decomposed.

Face it. Mind/brain characteristics and body characteristics essentially cover what it is to be human. You can introduce no new characteristics by inventing the concept of a soul. Name only one. I'll wait.

[fr0d0]

I can introduce no new physical characteristics using a non physical descriptor? Because 'soul' is actually descriptive of something.

As you've pointed out, all the characteristics you've associated with 'soul' cannot survive death, and therefore cannot logically be attributed to something which by it's nature survives death.