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The Super-Meaning of Romantic Relationships
#41
RE: The Super-Meaning of Romantic Relationships
(September 24, 2016 at 11:35 am)Faith No More Wrote: You have to remember that we're sold an extremely romanticized version of love and relationships by movies and books.  Happily ever after doesn't exist.  Most love is fleeting, and our brains change enough over time that it is highly likely that any love you experience will fade.  Our brains are essentially big pots of chemical soup, and love is really just a chemical reaction in your brain.  We need a certain level of certain neurotransmitters to maintain a happy mood, and how we go about our daily lives definitely affects that.  The different relationships we have with other people release different chemicals into our brains, which make us feel satisfied.  If you find yourself only being satisfied by romantic relationships, it's most likely that you are experiencing some sort of chemical imbalance that the stimulation of a relationship helps to fix, which leads to a feeling of satisfaction and validation.

That's why some people get addicted to drugs easily.  They lack the proper neurotransmitters, so when they take the drugs that release those neurotransmitters, their brains start craving that alternative source.  You're essentially using love as your drug.  When you're in a relationship, you get the stimulation that releases those transmitters.  But when the relationship ends,you lose that source of neurotransmitters, and your brain is hardwired to want to repeat whatever it was that was giving you that.  Thus, you crave a relationship and feel meaningless without it.

You have to remember that we're pretty much complex biological robots.  It feels as if certain things make us happy, but what it really is that those things are the stimulation that releases the neurotransmitters that make us feel happiness.  The good news is there are all kinds of things beside a relationship that release the chemicals we need, like exercise.  The key is finding what works for you.

I've studied a fair amount of evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and all the related stuff.  The more I learn about life, the less I believe that the people pushing these theories have anything of scientific value to tell us. Here are my four reasons:

1) Most of this "knowledge" comes with a heavy dose of confirmation bias, so they highlight the observations that match their theory's predictions and ignore observations that don't fit their theoretical framework.  

2) Neuroscientists have failed to solve the "hard problem of consciousness" which is how a set of neurotransmitters and electrical signals translates to the subjective first-person experience of consciousness.  Talking about "neurotransmitters" gives me exactly zero useful information about what romantic love feels like, or about how to stop being attracted to women who treat me badly.

3) All of this knowledge about evolution and brain function has failed miserably at helping us solve the basic problems of the human condition, such as war, poverty, divorce, suffering, etc.  

4) The power of a scientific theory lies not it its ability to explain the past, but in its ability to predict the future.  Evolution in particular can give us detailed explanations about what's happened in the past, but can't tell us anything about what's going to happen next.   This is one of the reasons I like physics: it has the best predictive power of any scientific discipline.  

I guess my real frustration with neuroscience and evolutionary psychology is that it never helped me to solve any of my personal problems, or most of the problems of the people around me.  

That really doesn't have much to do with the meaning of romantic relationships.  Unless neuroscientists are able to identify a neurotransmitter that moderates a person's sense of meaning in life.
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#42
RE: The Super-Meaning of Romantic Relationships
(September 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm)InquiringMind Wrote: I've studied a fair amount of evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and all the related stuff.  The more I learn about life, the less I believe that the people pushing these theories have anything of scientific value to tell us. Here are my four reasons:

1) Most of this "knowledge" comes with a heavy dose of confirmation bias, so they highlight the observations that match their theory's predictions and ignore observations that don't fit their theoretical framework.

Source?

(September 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm)InquiringMind Wrote: 2) Neuroscientists have failed to solve the "hard problem of consciousness" which is how a set of neurotransmitters and electrical signals translates to the subjective first-person experience of consciousness.  Talking about "neurotransmitters" gives me exactly zero useful information about what romantic love feels like, or about how to stop being attracted to women who treat me badly.

Not understanding the hard problem of consciousness =/= all information we have is useless.  You may as well say that since we haven't reconciled quantum mechanics and relativity that none of the information we have is useful.  

(September 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm)InquiringMind Wrote: 3) All of this knowledge about evolution and brain function has failed miserably at helping us solve the basic problems of the human condition, such as war, poverty, divorce, suffering, etc.  

So what?  You do realize that neuroscience is an extremely young science, right?  We're only just now being able to develop the technology to determine the inner-workings of the brain.  The brain is extremely complex, and expecting us to have solved such complex problems because we've just begun to pull back the first layers of the onion is extremely unrealistic.

(September 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm)InquiringMind Wrote: 4) The power of a scientific theory lies not it its ability to explain the past, but in its ability to predict the future.  Evolution in particular can give us detailed explanations about what's happened in the past, but can't tell us anything about what's going to happen next.   This is one of the reasons I like physics: it has the best predictive power of any scientific discipline.  

Again, so what?  You're essentially dismissing neuroscience because it's not like physics.  Of course it's not.  Modern physics has been around since the time of Newton.  You may as well just say you're not going to eat oranges because they're not apples.

(September 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm)InquiringMind Wrote: I guess my real frustration with neuroscience and evolutionary psychology is that it never helped me to solve any of my personal problems, or most of the problems of the people around me.  

How could it when you're so easily dismissed it?

(September 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm)InquiringMind Wrote: That really doesn't have much to do with the meaning of romantic relationships.  Unless neuroscientists are able to identify a neurotransmitter that moderates a person's sense of meaning in life.

Nonsense.  We know for a fact that the brain works on a reward based system.  When we do something that is pleasing to us, neurotransmitters are released that stimulate certain neurons.  That stimulation causes those neurons to "crave" that neurotransmitter, and that is what causes us to desire to repeat an action.  The fact that we feel the need return to romantic relationships after they're gone show that they are indeed a release of neurotransmitters.  So, the meaning behind those relationships is actually that your neurons are wanting chemicals.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#43
RE: The Super-Meaning of Romantic Relationships
(September 24, 2016 at 12:02 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Well, one positive aspect of being a romantic relationship (for me), would be having someone around when my car starts acting up. 
I hate being ripped off by mechanics. 

Some of the work I've paid a load of money for, could've easily been fixed by a dutiful sweetheart, I just know it.

Bastards.

Same here. I hate being ripped off by house cleaners. ;-)
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#44
RE: The Super-Meaning of Romantic Relationships
Maids and mechanics.  That's all we are to each other at the end of the day.   Wink
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#45
RE: The Super-Meaning of Romantic Relationships
(September 24, 2016 at 1:10 pm)InquiringMind Wrote: I've studied a fair amount of evolutionary psychology, neuroscience, and all the related stuff.  The more I learn about life, the less I believe that the people pushing these theories have anything of scientific value to tell us. Here are my four reasons:
So first, we make a hole, eh?   Wink

Quote:1) Most of this "knowledge" comes with a heavy dose of confirmation bias, so they highlight the observations that match their theory's predictions and ignore observations that don't fit their theoretical framework.  
Who is "they"?  Who does this?  What framework are we discussing?  

Quote:2) Neuroscientists have failed to solve the "hard problem of consciousness" which is how a set of neurotransmitters and electrical signals translates to the subjective first-person experience of consciousness.  Talking about "neurotransmitters" gives me exactly zero useful information about what romantic love feels like, or about how to stop being attracted to women who treat me badly.
What are you objecting to up above if understanding nuerotransmitters tells us nothing about those things?  Think about it, take a moment.........  In any case, how would not having an answer to one question make someones answers to all other questions wrong....that's what you gave this as a reason for.   

Quote:3) All of this knowledge about evolution and brain function has failed miserably at helping us solve the basic problems of the human condition, such as war, poverty, divorce, suffering, etc.  
It hasn't eliminated them (if that's what you mean....we've certainly leveraged our understanding of both to improve conditions), but why would a failure to eliminate poverty mean that a scientific understanding of nuerotransmitters, for example...was wrong?  

Quote:4) The power of a scientific theory lies not it its ability to explain the past, but in its ability to predict the future.  Evolution in particular can give us detailed explanations about what's happened in the past, but can't tell us anything about what's going to happen next.   This is one of the reasons I like physics: it has the best predictive power of any scientific discipline.  
Evolutionary theory has been making predictions since Darwin.

Quote:I guess my real frustration with neuroscience and evolutionary psychology is that it never helped me to solve any of my personal problems, or most of the problems of the people around me.  
Fair enough.....but maybe it's you?  Other people have been doing all these things.  

Quote:That really doesn't have much to do with the meaning of romantic relationships.  Unless neuroscientists are able to identify a neurotransmitter that moderates a person's sense of meaning in life.
You mean something like a mind altering drug?

Also, take your nose out of AIG, for your own good. You've just regurgitated their ad copy verbatum.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#46
RE: The Super-Meaning of Romantic Relationships
(September 29, 2016 at 9:30 am)Little lunch Wrote:
(September 24, 2016 at 12:02 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Well, one positive aspect of being a romantic relationship (for me), would be having someone around when my car starts acting up. 
I hate being ripped off by mechanics. 

Some of the work I've paid a load of money for, could've easily been fixed by a dutiful sweetheart, I just know it.

Bastards.

Same here. I hate being ripped off by house cleaners. ;-)

Hey...now, wait a second there! Big Grin
Reply



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