God sees - strongest argument for God.....

[The Grand Nudger]

You're still talking, as though you're the only person whose ever read magic book?  Mystic is a muslim, numbskull. He doesn't believe in jewish/christer fairy tales.

[Arkilogue]

You're still talking, as though you're the only person whose ever read magic book?  Mystic is a muslim, numbskull.  He doesn't believe in jewish/christer fairy tales.

I'm sure he can correct me, but don't Muslims consider Jesus to be the Word of God?

[Mystic]

I will come back in  a week. Jo I will address your argument in particular. I don't have time this week lol.

[Angrboda]

Mystic, that's not even an -argument-.  Where is the "therefore"?  What is the inference?  Thre isn;t a single mention of god in 1-5....so it doesn;t even matter if 1-5 are true....-you- failed to include god.  It's just an itemized list of batshit claims.  If this is the best argument for "god"..... "god" is in a sad, sad state.

I have to ask, why are you even -searching- for an argument.  What's wrong with your faith?

Nothing is wrong with his faith. Something is wrong with your definition and usage.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

[Arkilogue]

Ain't ignorance bliss?

[Chas]

The strongest argument that is repeated in many verses in Quran is that God witnesses all things and as such no doubt he Exists.

Now this may seem circular, but is it really?

It maybe said we need to know God exists to know he sees all things.  How else would we know this attribute of God without knowing God himself and his attributes?

Well, I think if we break it down:

1. We require perception for our identity
2. We have an objective identity.
3. Our perception is not what defines our objective identity.
4. All spiritual identities need an accurate perception.
5. The ultimate possible perception would be more accurate than all other perceptions.
6. The ultimate possible perception is thus what gives us an objective identity.

As for 1, it can be argued our thoughts, our deeds, they all require a state of conscious. Our concept of ourselves also requires a perception. But are we that which defines the level of our deeds, the quality of our actions, or is there a judgement beyond ours that defines our deeds? Makes us inherit our deeds.

The Quran often emphasizes who better as a judge than God?

 I also argue it's obvious we are not just a subjective concept that has no reality. We know this or we wouldn't even estimate ourselves or take some sort of guess of who others are.

It is also obvious that the real deed and our real hidden secret deep within us behind our actions has to be seen through an absolute accurate perspective. And we know through our nature that as far as this goes, we human deep inside know perfect perception requires absolute knowledge of what it means to be good. For example, suppose a person is higher then all of us in good deeds. How will our lower perception judge what he is. All possible levels of goodness thus be known and seen by this perceiver.

We constantly act as if there is a judge who makes us inherit our actions. We just don't focus to realize it. But this perception is something we cannot not assume. Even Atheist subconsciously are acting on this perceiver existing and making them inherit their deeds and other people inheriting their deeds.

In my belief, this is probably the strongest most potent argument for God. Because you have to deny yourself having an objective existence or say that it somehow it exists independent of your perception but also independent of any perception, both which are equally illogical.

Thank you for your time, with peace and blessings!

If that's your strongest argument, you lose.

Yes, it is circular and it is as limp as a wet noodle.

[Chad32]

Mystic, that's not even an -argument-.  Where is the "therefore"?  What is the inference?  Thre isn;t a single mention of god in 1-5....so it doesn;t even matter if 1-5 are true....-you- failed to include god.  It's just an itemized list of batshit claims.  If this is the best argument for "god"..... "god" is in a sad, sad state.

I have to ask, why are you even -searching- for an argument.  What's wrong with your faith?

Nothing is wrong with his faith. Something is wrong with your definition and usage.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Faith is not substantive, or evidence. Otherwise we'd have to believe that every god of every actiuve religion exists, because people today have faith in them. Or their interpretation of them.

[Arkilogue]

Nothing is wrong with his faith. Something is wrong with your definition and usage.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Faith is not substantive, or evidence. Otherwise we'd have to believe that every god of every actiuve religion exists, because people today have faith in them. Or their interpretation of them.

The way the word is current used/abused and practiced is not functionally different than belief. It's actual function has been lost/obscured to the public mind. If their belief system is based on the bible, it state's quite clearly in several places that faith is a gift of God, from God, and it is not created by man.

[Chad32]

Faith is not substantive, or evidence. Otherwise we'd have to believe that every god of every actiuve religion exists, because people today have faith in them. Or their interpretation of them.

The way the word is current used/abused and practiced is not functionally different than belief. It's actual function has been lost/obscured to the public mind. If their belief system is based on the bible, it state's quite clearly in several places that faith is a gift of God, from God, and it is not created by man.

That just sounds like special pleading. Like when people say christianity isn't a religion. It's a personal relationship.

[Arkilogue]

The way the word is current used/abused and practiced is not functionally different than belief. It's actual function has been lost/obscured to the public mind. If their belief system is based on the bible, it state's quite clearly in several places that faith is a gift of God, from God, and it is not created by man.

That just sounds like special pleading.

How?