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Supernatural Evidence?
#21
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
(October 17, 2016 at 9:41 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:
(October 17, 2016 at 8:49 pm)Soldat Du Christ Wrote: Alright self-proclaimed athiests, this is where your integrity is put into question. As some of you will so valiantly declair nuetrality, the default position being a lack of belief in god, rather than being closed off to the possibility.

Taking that stance will leave you inlcined to be open to the supernatural, as the very idea of God implies supernatural. This isn't a 'GOTCHA' question, i have a following proposition.

So, are you open to supernatural evidence?

From long experience the thread will quickly turn to semantics. The argument will be that everything previously thought supernatural later got rolled into natural. Blah blah blah. When in fact the opposite happened. We expanded the definition of natural to encompass previously dismissed phenomena.

Anything that violates the Conservation of Energy (say, walking on water) must be regarded as being supernatural.  If physics is wrong about the conservation laws, then what is left of science?
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#22
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
(October 17, 2016 at 8:49 pm)Soldat Du Christ Wrote: So, are you open to supernatural evidence?

There wouldn't be so much of a demand for evidence if the answer to your question was 'no'.

You can ask that same question again and again, but it will not have any merit until you meet the basic criteria of providing evidence of the supernatural. The problem is that there is no real evidence. Anywhere. It doesn't exist.

The better question is: How far are you willing to intellectually stoop in order to keep believing?
“Life is like a grapefruit. Well, it's sort of orangey-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have half a one for breakfast.”  - Ford Prefect
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#23
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
I am open to supernatural evidence. However, it has to be "evidence", as in, "empirical evidence", not he-said, she-said, people claim anecdotal evidence. I've seen a few things in my life I can't explain, but I'm not just jumping to the conclusion that it was magic.

However I would like to point out that there is ZERO evidence of anything supernatural ever. I have looked into a ton of this stuff in my lifetime, from magic, to Bigfoot, to crop circles and UFOs. In every single instance I have ever looked into it has always, without exception, been someone choosing to believe it was supernatural by rejecting all possible natural explanations. In each case the person saw or heard about something that matched the view they had of a particular interest they had and simply drew a conclusion that this was evidence that their particular interest was real. It wasn't so much "evidence to suggest" so much as it was "this supports my belief".
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#24
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
(October 17, 2016 at 9:41 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: From long experience the thread will quickly turn to semantics. The argument will be that everything previously thought supernatural later got rolled into natural. Blah blah blah. When in fact the opposite happened. We expanded the definition of natural to encompass previously dismissed phenomena.

Oh, yeah. Instead of figuring out the natural mechanisms behind lightning, earthquakes, volcanoes, the sun, meteors, comets, et al, we just stretched the word "natural" to include those things. Oh, wait, that's not how it worked at all.

What part of your ass did you pull this one out of?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#25
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
Proposition 1. Job 38:16
"Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
"

Discovered 1977
http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Ge-Hy/H...Floor.html








NOTICE: Lateral moves, ad hominums, and other evasions will not be noticed. Adress the evidence, and only the evidence presented.
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#26
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
Job.  More shit stolen from the Sumerians.

http://www.ancient.eu/article/226/


Quote:The Ludlul-Bel-Nimeqi is a Babylonian poem which chronicles the lament of a good man suffering undeservedly. Also known as `The Poem of the Righteous Sufferer', the title translates as "I will praise the Lord of Wisdom".  In the poem, Tabu-utul-Bel, age 52, an official of the city of Nippur, cries out that he has been afflicted with various pains and injustices and, asserting his own righteous behavior, asks why the gods should allow him to suffer so. In this, the poem treats the age old question of `why do bad things happen to good people' and the poem has thus been linked to the later Hebrew composition The Book of Job. No scholarly consensus exists on a date for the writing of Job (nor, for that matter, when the story related is supposed to have taken place) but many point to the 7th, 6th, or 4th centuries BCE as probable while Ludlul-Bel-Nimeqi dates to c. 1700 BCE. The Babylonian poem was probably inspired by the earlier Sumerian work, Man and His God (composed c. 2000 BCE) which, according to Samuel Noah Kramer, was written "for the purpose of prescribing the proper attitude and conduct for a victim of cruel and seemingly undeserved misfortune"

Got anything else?
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#27
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
(October 18, 2016 at 2:25 pm)Soldat Du Christ Wrote: Proposition 1. Job 38:16
"Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
"

Discovered 1977
http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Ge-Hy/H...Floor.html








NOTICE: Lateral moves, ad hominums, and other evasions will not be noticed. Adress the evidence, and only the evidence presented.

But...but...all you did was post evidence for natural things and try to shoehorn an irrelevant bible passage as a prediction. What is there to address?

ETA: Besides, the bible says specifically that god made you out of dirt. How could it then say that life evolved from the sea?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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#28
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
(October 18, 2016 at 2:39 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Job.  More shit stolen from the Sumerians.

http://www.ancient.eu/article/226/


Quote:The Ludlul-Bel-Nimeqi is a Babylonian poem which chronicles the lament of a good man suffering undeservedly. Also known as `The Poem of the Righteous Sufferer', the title translates as "I will praise the Lord of Wisdom".  In the poem, Tabu-utul-Bel, age 52, an official of the city of Nippur, cries out that he has been afflicted with various pains and injustices and, asserting his own righteous behavior, asks why the gods should allow him to suffer so. In this, the poem treats the age old question of `why do bad things happen to good people' and the poem has thus been linked to the later Hebrew composition The Book of Job. No scholarly consensus exists on a date for the writing of Job (nor, for that matter, when the story related is supposed to have taken place) but many point to the 7th, 6th, or 4th centuries BCE as probable while Ludlul-Bel-Nimeqi dates to c. 1700 BCE. The Babylonian poem was probably inspired by the earlier Sumerian work, Man and His God (composed c. 2000 BCE) which, according to Samuel Noah Kramer, was written "for the purpose of prescribing the proper attitude and conduct for a victim of cruel and seemingly undeserved misfortune"

Got anything else?

"That aside, however, and also granting the obvious difference of Job's deliverance by God himself and Tabu-utul-Bel's salvation through a necromancer, the most significant difference is in what the suffering consists of and the depiction of the deities."

You can hardly dismiss it, two completely different stories. Furthurmore, you didn't adress the impossible prohpetic fullfillment.

(October 18, 2016 at 2:44 pm)Faith No More Wrote:
(October 18, 2016 at 2:25 pm)Soldat Du Christ Wrote: Proposition 1. Job 38:16
"Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
"

Discovered 1977
http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Ge-Hy/H...Floor.html








NOTICE: Lateral moves, ad hominums, and other evasions will not be noticed. Adress the evidence, and only the evidence presented.

But...but...all you did was post evidence for natural things and try to shoehorn an irrelevant bible passage as a prediction. What is there to address?

ETA: Besides, the bible says specifically that god made you out of dirt. How could it then say that life evolved from the sea?

You think this passage is irelevent to the topic of sea springs, when they both share the same key word? Wrong. Also, has nothing to do with evolution, irrelevent.
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#29
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
(October 17, 2016 at 9:01 pm)Jehanne Wrote: Yes, absolutely.  Let "god" heal a 1,000 adult amputees of his/her/its own choosing and I will renounce my atheism publicly, right on this board!

One growing back a limb would suffice. To prove the supernatural that is. Not to prove god. The one and only god you claim to be the one and only. Which is but one out of many. So not even if we were to give you the supernatural and it being a god's work, does it prove to be your scripted christian god of your denomination. Since even christians don't agree on one definition.
[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]
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#30
RE: Supernatural Evidence?
(October 18, 2016 at 2:55 pm)Soldat Du Christ Wrote: You think this passage is irelevent to the topic of sea springs, when they both share the same key word? Wrong. Also, has nothing to do with evolution, irrelevent.

So, the mention of "sea springs" in a question in the bible, which was almost certainly referring to aquatic springs, is now somehow a prediction of volcanic springs?

Did you ever stop to think there might me a problem if you have to bend over backwards so far to make this work?
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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