France begins to clear 'Jungle' camp

[Faith No More]

In the end, we should be doing more to help our own.

Like what? What problems does the U.K. have that justify ignoring a massive humanitarian crisis where innocent civilians are caught between a murderous government that uses chemical weapons and murderous rebels that would most likely be as bad or worse if they were in power?

You say you're not full of hate(even though you talk like you are), but you're clearly indifferent to the extensive suffering of millions of people. There's a trivial differences between the two.

[Thumpalumpacus]

You said they don't want to be in France because they're not welcome there.  The place where they want to go is the UK.  I'm saying they're pretty much not welcome in the UK either.  In the sense that legally they're not welcome here by laws put in place by the people who run the country.

Yes. But my point was about how they perceive the two nations, not that their perceptions were correct.

So you're saying these illegal immigrants wouldn't want to stay somewhere they're not welcome, I'm saying isn't the whole point of what they're doing to try and aggressively head towards a place where they're not welcome, a place where the powers that be will try and prevent them from entering.

lol, "aggressively". Were you much worried about aggression in 2003 when your own country helped mine in creating this mess in the first place?

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not saying that you're wrong -- you're probably right, plenty of Englishmen scared of foreigners and busy erecting walls (yours legal, because you have the luxury of the Channel) to keep them out. I'm not arguing that. There are small people the world over -- my own country just had 48 million of them out themselves and fuck our country in so doing.

---

I don't believe I've ever heard the sentiment 'we should look out for our own' followed by anything that could remove it from the realm of vague parrotism.

I've usually found it to be a fig leaf for an ugly xenophobia. It's clear that people like Bella have yet to read John Donne's Meditation XVII, or understand it.

[paulpablo]

You said they don't want to be in France because they're not welcome there.  The place where they want to go is the UK.  I'm saying they're pretty much not welcome in the UK either.  In the sense that legally they're not welcome here by laws put in place by the people who run the country.

Yes. But my point was about how they perceive the two nations, not that their perceptions were correct.

So you're saying these illegal immigrants wouldn't want to stay somewhere they're not welcome, I'm saying isn't the whole point of what they're doing to try and aggressively head towards a place where they're not welcome, a place where the powers that be will try and prevent them from entering.

lol, "aggressively". Were you much worried about aggression in 2003 when your own country helped mine in creating this mess in the first place?

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not saying that you're wrong -- you're probably right, plenty of Englishmen scared of foreigners and busy erecting walls (yours legal, because you have the luxury of the Channel) to keep them out. I'm not arguing that. There are small people the world over -- my own country just had 48 million of them out themselves and fuck our country in so doing.

---

I don't believe I've ever heard the sentiment 'we should look out for our own' followed by anything that could remove it from the realm of vague parrotism.

I've usually found it to be a fig leaf for an ugly xenophobia. It's clear that people like Bella have yet to read John Donne's Meditation XVII, or understand it.

Why would they mistakenly think they're welcome into a country that law enforcers are aggressively trying to keep them out of?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yes. But my point was about how they perceive the two nations, not that their perceptions were correct.


lol, "aggressively". Were you much worried about aggression in 2003 when your own country helped mine in creating this mess in the first place?

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not saying that you're wrong -- you're probably right, plenty of Englishmen scared of foreigners and busy erecting walls (yours legal, because you have the luxury of the Channel) to keep them out. I'm not arguing that. There are small people the world over -- my own country just had 48 million of them out themselves and fuck our country in so doing.

---

I've usually found it to be a fig leaf for an ugly xenophobia. It's clear that people like Bella have yet to read John Donne's Meditation XVII, or understand it.

Why would they mistakenly think they're welcome into a country that law enforcers are aggressively trying to keep them out of?

Perhaps because the news in Syria or Libya is too busy reporting body counts to report on UK attitudes towards immigration?

[paulpablo]

Why would they mistakenly think they're welcome into a country that law enforcers are aggressively trying to keep them out of?

Perhaps because the news in Syria or Libya is too busy reporting body counts to report on UK attitudes towards immigration?

But they're in France in this jungle camp, they're not in Syria.
If anything they'd be more informed than anyone about how unwelcome illegal immigrants are in Britain because of the fact they're are the immigrants who are being aggressively turned away from Britain.

They must have some knowledge about Britain beyond what they've seen on Mary poppins to make them want to travel through so many other countries to get here.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Perhaps because the news in Syria or Libya is too busy reporting body counts to report on UK attitudes towards immigration?

But they're in France in this jungle camp, they're not in Syria.
If anything they'd be more informed than anyone about how unwelcome illegal immigrants are in Britain because of the fact they're are the immigrants who are being aggressively turned away from Britain.

They must have some knowledge about Britain beyond what they've seen on Mary poppins to make them want to travel through so many other countries to get here.

And yet all they have to hold onto is hope ... and the knowledge that the French so dislike them that they're being interned.

[SteelCurtain]

They must have some knowledge about Britain beyond what they've seen on Mary poppins to make them want to travel through so many other countries to get here.

The only thing that makes sense is that a lot of these people have family or community in Britain, and despite whether Brits want them there, all they have to go on is that thread of hope for something familiar.

I know that would be my thing if I were in that situation. I'm imagining if I were being bombed to shit in America, and somehow I am choosing between Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan as a refuge, and I happen to know of a couple of people from my neighborhood in Afghanistan. I wouldn't care whether I was wanted in Afghanistan or not---if I had to choose between a place where I'm not welcome and another place where I'm not welcome that has some people I know and can lean on for support---I'd claw tooth and nail to get to Afghanistan.

If the reality is that there are going to be refugees, and maybe there are going to be a lot of them, it seems counterproductive to label them all criminals (not talking about you now, paul) and miscreants and continuously talk about how they're not wanted. Even if you'd rather not have them there. Speaking from my point of view, there would be nothing that would keep me from wanting to assimilate into another culture if all I heard was nastiness and hatred all the time. My culture would be vastly preferable, and I would be way more susceptible to believing shit about a culture that treated me like I was sewage from the get go.

[abaris]

Don't forget that these people get shoved around all over the map because no country wants them. Out of fear of their resident xenophobes and their very own populous politicians changing some political dime on their backs. It's a crying shame for Europe. It's even more of a shame when Greece and Italy are expected to carry the whole load. Greece the poorest country in Europe at the moment. And it should put all these bawling xenophobes to shame when observing how the piss poor population of Greece share what little they have with the refugees.