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Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
#31
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
People imagine that holy books or precepts - always generously imagined themselves...exist in a vacuum.  They seem to forget the human element.  The creature that will kill for the "peace of god". No matter how positively valued a person imagines their own (or anothers) religious beliefs to be...those very same beliefs -will- find themselves to be the core of some heinous shit, somewhere.

It;s not the headline stuff, though...that makes up the majority of religion's shittifying effect. It;s the everyday indifference. The causual bigotry. The love lost. Opportunities missed. 24hours a day, 7 days a week...a mountain of tiny indignities multiplied by every believer on earth. Real evil is as wholesome as apple pie.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#32
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
The funny thing is that having these wishy washy peaceful versions of Christianity/Islam is actually the radical approach. The norm, as things used to be and by actually following what the books say, is to be violent and divisive.
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#33
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
Epic Penguin Wrote:Do you think your gut feeling has, perhaps, something to do with our natural tendency to respect and value authority?

No, sir.  I see it as a symptom of my idealism.
 
Epic Penguin Wrote:Analytical thought is to be applied on such matters without exception. Feelings, yes, even gut ones, have their place and use in life, that place is not, however, in the anthropologist's toolcase, in my view. I might be wrong, though. I welcome further discussion on this point if we find ourselves in disagreement.

IMO, feelings, hunches, and intuition allow us to break away from the rigidity of logical thinking and consider other possible approaches to resolving problems, such as lateral thinking.  IMO, these tools could serve an anthropologist quite well, especially when he or she encounters a particular culture whose customs and ways don’t seem to serve any logical or rational function; thus, preventing premature judgements and conclusions, which could lead to misunderstanding and possible hostilities. IMO, the Star Trek TNG episode ‘Darmok’, illustrates this idea pretty well.   

Epic Penguin Wrote:As for peace, it is an illusory concept. We will always be at war. Strife is the natural state of everything in existence.
 
Is this the natural state of everything in existence or just the mentality of beings who are incapable of conceiving of something different?  P.S. This comment was not directed at you personally, but at the generality of the comment in your post.


There is a Stanley Kubrick movie called Paths of Glory (1957).  In the movie, General Mireau, played by George Macready, leads an impossible attack and ultimately charges three men in his regiment with cowardice in the face of the enemy in order to save face and protect his reputation.  As a result, Colonel Dax, played by Kirk Douglas, defends the three men and genuinely wants to save them.  However, despite Dax’s idealism, the commanding general, General Broulard, played by Adolphe Menjou, thinks that Dax is merely angling for Mireau’s command: the concept of an officer who genuinely desires to get at the truth, promote peace, and save his men is completely illusory to Broulard (strife and war are all he understands in this particular situation).  Hence, like Dax, it seems that when people are truly passionate about peace, their motives are often misunderstood and labeled as illusory.  Based on your experience, would you say that you have encountered this, Epic Penguin?











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#34
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
It's the natural state of everything in existence that we're aware of.  Naturally, we "higher order" creatures have to scrape and claw our way to limited resources...but even autotrophs get viscious.  Trees strangle each other from above and below, simultaneously, sea rocket can recognize it;s kin and they work together to crowd and poison the soil not only for other plant life but even for other lineages of sea rocket. Both of these behaviors express themselves without the subjects meaning each other ill at all...which might be even more disturbing than intentional harm, in the context of the question. The end of human strife would require unlimited resources...and that tall order would only lay the groundwork...everything on earth has billions of years of developed conflict response to overcome even -if- resources were unlimited. Then you move your way on up to more nebulous things like random cruelty and indifference.

So, there's the tab...unlimited resources, the un-doing of billions of years of evolution, and a cure for negatively valued human behaviors. Awfully long odds.
(and I bet someone looking to do the last thing on the list might be engaging in the worst human behaviors of all, lol)

Perhaps it would be better to learn to see the beauty and utility in conflict, than it would be to wish for it's end? It would certainly be less disillusioning.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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#35
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
(October 25, 2016 at 3:55 pm)robvalue Wrote: The funny thing is that having these wishy washy peaceful versions of Christianity/Islam is actually the radical approach. The norm, as things used to be and by actually following what the books say, is to be violent and divisive.

Why?

You find both approaches sufficiently covered in all the holy books. Everyone can make a pick to their liking.

And I stress again. The absence of religion would only create a different world, not a better one. Human nature stands against that. In fact I find the approach of some atheists to be anti theists as presumptuous than the religious one of wanting to shove their believes down everyone's throats.

And it doesn't end there. There's more than sufficient political radicalism in this world. We keep talking about the dangers of religion while at the same time large parts of Europe are up to their neck in a sea of shit of revived nationalism. The same kind of nationalism that brought us the Great wars of the last century.
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#36
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
Yeah, it could happen.  Wicca's all right.  Satanism has basically the same single rule, though they are atheists so they tend to be a bit confrontational like the rest of us.
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Side effects may include super powers or enlarged penis which may become permanent with continued use.  Stop taking Killatol immediately and consult your doctor if you experience penis enlargement of more than 3 inches, laser vision, superhuman strength, invulnerability, the ability to explode heads with your mind or time travel.  Killatoll is not for everyone, especially those who already have convertibles or vehicles of ridiculous size to supplement penis size.
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#37
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
(October 28, 2016 at 4:36 pm)abaris Wrote: Why?

You find both approaches sufficiently covered in all the holy books. Everyone can make a pick to their liking.

The good doesn't wash out the bad and it certainly doesn't remove the stink of dogma. 

(October 28, 2016 at 4:36 pm)abaris Wrote: And I stress again. The absence of religion would only create a different world, not a better one. Human nature stands against that. 

Human nature isn't magically tuned to an ethical constant of sorts that makes it make up for the removal of one source of suffering from the world by forcing it to substitute another in its place. That is an irrational belief of yours whether you arrive at it by the reasoning I just mockingly exemplified or by another. 


(October 28, 2016 at 4:36 pm)abaris Wrote:  In fact I find the approach of some atheists to be anti theists as presumptuous than the religious one of wanting to shove their believes down everyone's throats.

How so? 

(October 28, 2016 at 4:36 pm)abaris Wrote: And it doesn't end there. There's more than sufficient political radicalism in this world. We keep talking about the dangers of religion while at the same time large parts of Europe are up to their neck in a sea of shit of revived nationalism. The same kind of nationalism that brought us the Great wars of the last century.

No one is disputing the dangers of nationalism, abaris , but this is an atheist forum and the topic under discussion is the viability of peace in the presence of religion. Why are you surprised at the relevance of topic this discussion is geared for ?
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#38
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
(October 24, 2016 at 6:30 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(October 24, 2016 at 5:28 pm)Jörmungandr Wrote: Wow.  That's some big text.

No doubt it's important.

(October 24, 2016 at 6:34 pm)abaris Wrote:
(October 24, 2016 at 6:30 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: No doubt it's important.

Ever so important.

(October 24, 2016 at 6:40 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(October 24, 2016 at 6:30 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: No doubt it's important.

Naturally.  If you shout, it means you have something to say, right?

As to the OP:  I very much doubt that it is possible for humanity to create a peaceful world, full stop.

Boru

(October 24, 2016 at 7:02 pm)Arkilogue Wrote:
(October 24, 2016 at 6:34 pm)abaris Wrote: Ever so important.

Especially for those of us who need reading glasses Hehe

I apologize, that size of font was unintentional.  It had merely been a remnant of the software I used to edit the post elsewhere. Something I should've noticed and adjusted thereafter, no doubt.
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#39
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
(October 28, 2016 at 5:17 pm)Asmodee Wrote: Satanism has basically the same single rule, though they are atheists so they tend to be a bit confrontational like the rest of us.

Who's the rest of us?

And I highly doubt that Wiccans and (the atheist version of) Satanism have the same rules. Wiccans have a very complex set of rules fitting their believes.

Here it is, if you're interested.

http://www.controverscial.com/The%2013%2...Belief.htm

Others, non American wiccans have 9 rules. Most important of all, everything, the good and the evil, you do to another, reflects tenfold on you.
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#40
RE: Is It Possible for Humanity to Create a Peaceful World with Religion in it?
That is like asking for a rectangular circle.
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