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WTF???
#11
RE: WTF???
Your precious pledge had that asinine phrase added in 1954. It is hardly shrouded in antiquity.

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#12
RE: WTF???
(August 28, 2010 at 8:59 pm)padraic Wrote:
Quote:Will somebody please tell me where in the Constitution it states that there shall be freedom FROM religion? I don't get it. The Constitution simply states that Congress shall establish no State religion.

Section 116 is accepted as giving that freedom.


Oh,do you mean the AMERICAN constitution? I quoted the Australian constitution,and UK doesn't actually have a convenient single document known as "The Constitution".

My understanding is that freedom FROM religion has long been established in the US via constitutional lawyers and the US supreme court.

The argument that a freedom simply doesn't exist because it is not specifically mentioned in the constitution is a little fatuous. EG as far as I know the US constitution makes no mention of the right own semi automatic weapons,only" the right to bear arms" .(Second Amendment,1791)


Quote: What makes me angry, you may ask? Ignorance, obstinance and stupidity. Obstinance most of all, because stupidity can't be helped and ignorance can be cured.

Considering what follows,I find it hilarious that you seem to have written that statement without a hint irony.

I beg your pardon. Yes, I was oblivious to the fact that this is an international forum. Mea culpa. I was indeed posting about the U.S. Constitution. And you are correct about the 2nd Amendment. It does not specify which arms Americans may bear. Only that we may indeed bear them. How's that going in Oz, BTW? Crime rate down now that the ordinary citizen is unarmed? Constables are there to protect you at every turn? I think not.

I merely posed a question which you did not directly answer. You are the one who seems to have taken umbrage. You changed the subject. Why? The U.S. Constitution says what it says. It has been perverted by those in a position to do so. I ask again, why do you feel the need to impress your ideology upon others? Are you that insecure in your dogma? I'm flexible and do not have the need to convince others that it's my way or the highway. You and many other atheists are obstinate.
(August 28, 2010 at 9:31 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Your precious pledge had that asinine phrase added in 1954. It is hardly shrouded in antiquity.

I am well aware of the history of the Pledge. As I stated in my introduction, I am not offended by those who profess a belief in one religion or another as long as they respect the beliefs of others. You are obviously one of those atheists who are intolerant of those who do not share your point of view. You're no better than Jimmy Swaggart. Do you have the ability to answer my original question?
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#13
RE: WTF???
(August 28, 2010 at 9:33 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: Crime rate down now that the ordinary citizen is unarmed? Constables are there to protect you at every turn? I think not.

Well, actually...
“Society is not a disease, it is a disaster. What a stupid miracle that one can live in it.” ~ E.M. Cioran
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#14
RE: WTF???
* Tiberius sits waiting for AngryBiker to read and respond to his post, which conveniently answered all his questions.
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#15
RE: WTF???
Quote:You are obviously one of those atheists who are intolerant of those who do not share your point of view. You're no better than Jimmy Swaggart. Do you have the ability to answer my original question?


That's where you're wrong, asshole. I don't care what you think or believe inside your home or your fucking church. Just keep your bullshit out of our classrooms and courtrooms.

( I think you are a fundie.)



As far as the pledge goes....it is well past time that the people of this country wake up to the fucking fact that "praying" ain't going to do shit. The problems we face require work and no one's invisible sky-daddy is going to fix them.


Are we clear now? I don't think I can make it any simpler for you.
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#16
RE: WTF???
(August 28, 2010 at 9:40 pm)Tiberius Wrote: * Tiberius sits waiting for AngryBiker to read and respond to his post, which conveniently answered all his questions.

Y'know he won't respond to you because you proved him wrong?
Eeyore Wrote:Thanks for noticing.
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#17
RE: WTF???
Quote: How's that going in Oz, BTW? Crime rate down now that the ordinary citizen is unarmed? Constables are there to protect you at every turn? I think not.

Seeing as you ask,it's going spiffingly thank you.

Gun related crimes,even in armed robbery* are rare in Australia,as are police-caused death and police killed on duty.


A hint: If you're going to make a comment about another country,perhaps make some effort to make sure you know what you're talking about. Might make you look a little less ignorant.

*here 'armed robbery' rarely means a firearm. It more often means something like knife, ,screwdriver or perhaps a club of some kind. Rarely is a victim injured during a robbery here. Australia does not have the death penalty either.
(August 28, 2010 at 9:40 pm)Entropist Wrote:
(August 28, 2010 at 9:33 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: Crime rate down now that the ordinary citizen is unarmed? Constables are there to protect you at every turn? I think not.

Well, actually...



Nice one although perhaps a bit misleading.The figures refer to overall homicides,not just gun related deaths,which are lower.


In Australia the figure is 2.95 per 100.000 deaths a year

In the US it's 15.22, which is the highest rate of any country listed. (although to be fair,the figures are a few years old. I think Mexico may be higher theses days due to the open drug wars),

In Japan it's almost impossible be legally own a firearm. The rate of deaths from guns there is 0.07 per 100.000.,the lowest in the developed world.
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#18
RE: WTF???
Angrybiker, have you ever heard the term "projecting?" You accuse people of being belligerent (I believe that is what you said.), of taking umbrage and of being obstinate. In doing so, you have described your presence in this thread. I would venture to guess that if you took your holier-than-thou attitude down a notch, you would find a better developed conversation. As it stands, I have no wish to discuss this topic with you. I'm sure that doesn't bother you in the slightest, but it would be nice to have a normal conversation about this.

Oh, and answer Adrian's frigging post, would you?
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#19
RE: WTF???
(August 28, 2010 at 9:33 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: You are obviously one of those atheists who are intolerant of those who do not share your point of view. You're no better than Jimmy Swaggart.

[Image: opinion.jpg]

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

“Society is not a disease, it is a disaster. What a stupid miracle that one can live in it.” ~ E.M. Cioran
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#20
RE: WTF???
(August 28, 2010 at 9:40 pm)Entropist Wrote:
(August 28, 2010 at 9:33 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: Crime rate down now that the ordinary citizen is unarmed? Constables are there to protect you at every turn? I think not.

Well, actually...

Britain, Australia top U.S. in violent crime
Rates Down Under increase despite strict gun-control measures



Law enforcement and anti-crime activists regularly claim that the United States tops the charts in most crime-rate categories, but a new international study says that America's former master -- Great Britain -- has much higher levels of crime.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations.

Twenty-six percent of English citizens -- roughly one-quarter of the population -- have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized.

The United States didn't even make the "top 10" list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

Highlights of the study indicated that:

* The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in England and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United States and 0.4 percent in Japan.
* Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest recorded. Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher rates of burglary with entry than England and Wales (2.8 percent). In the U.S., the rate was 2.6 percent, according to 1995 figures;
* "After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said.
* England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent of the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent in Australia and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among the "top 10" nations.
* The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4 percent of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was second with 3.1 percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.

Interestingly, the study found that one of the lowest victimization rates -- just 15 percent overall -- occurred in Northern Ireland, home of the Irish Republican Army and scene of years of terrorist violence.

Analysts in the U.S. were quick to point out that all of the other industrialized nations included in the survey had stringent gun-control laws, but were overall much more violent than the U.S.

Indeed, information on Handgun Control's Center to Prevent Handgun Violence website actually praises Australia and attempts to portray Australia as a much safer country following strict gun-control measures passed by lawmakers in 1996.

"The next time a credulous friend or acquaintance tells you that Australia actually suffered more crime when they got tougher on guns ... offer him a Foster's, and tell him the facts," the CPHV site says.

"In 1998, the rate at which firearms were used in murder, attempted murder, assault, sexual assault and armed robbery went down. In that year, the last for which statistics are available, the number of murders involving a firearm declined to its lowest point in four years," says CPHV.

However, the International Crime Victims Survey notes that overall crime victimization Down Under rose from 27.8 percent of the population in 1988, to 28.6 percent in 1991 to over 30 percent in 1999.

Advocates of less gun control in the U.S. say the drop in gun murder rates was more than offset by the overall victimization increase. Also, they note that Australia leads the ICVS report in three of four categories -- burglary (3.9 percent of the population), violent crime (4.1 percent) and overall victimization (about 31 percent).

Australia is second to England in auto theft (2.1 percent).

In March 2000, WorldNetDaily reported that since Australia's widespread gun ban, violent crime had increased in the country.

WND reported that, although lawmakers responsible for passing the ban promised a safer country, the nation's crime statistics tell a different story:

* Countrywide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
* Assaults are up 8.6 percent.
* Amazingly, armed robberies have climbed nearly 45 percent.
* In the Australian state of Victoria, gun homicides have climbed 300 percent.
* In the 25 years before the gun bans, crime in Australia had been dropping steadily.
* There has been a reported "dramatic increase" in home burglaries and assaults on the elderly.



(August 29, 2010 at 12:54 am)Entropist Wrote:
(August 28, 2010 at 9:33 pm)AngryBiker Wrote: You are obviously one of those atheists who are intolerant of those who do not share your point of view. You're no better than Jimmy Swaggart.
[hide]
[Image: opinion.jpg][hide]

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Oh my god, cue up the the theme from Deliverance, LOL. You are correct. sir, it is only my opinion. Which is more or less my point here. Answer the friggin' question.

Now, I'm not a Nancy Boy, I didn't kick the hornets' nest without the expectation of getting stung. I'm unemployed and bored. I need a little intellectual stimulation. Indulge me.
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