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religious friends
#11
RE: religious friends
I can perhaps have religious friends. Although it depends what you mean by "religious". Not if they refuse to have a proper conversation with you once the differences in your beliefs are realized. And the debates go no where.
Or they don't want to be questioned about it. But they expect to keep claiming it. That just does my head in. If I socialize with a "friend" who keeps making wacky claims and saying wacky things and doesn't want to be questioned about it critically! I'd have to resort to only small talk. I could be friendly with them...but only in part time. Because if I actually tried to go deeper, actually tried to get to know them. They don't want to be questioned.
Its ok if they're more rational....if the differences are big and we're kind of left to small talk only. That kind of kills the friendship in my experience. As with the two online friends I had....
The friendship couldn't progress because there were huge differences and this huge barrier in between them.
(December 20, 2008 at 11:28 am)LukeMC Wrote: If somebody fervently believed in the stork theory of pregnancy, you'd find them a little weird and crazy. If somebody believed in a mighty being with fairytale lands to send you to and floods and fermements and dinosaur riding humans and arks and talking snakes and magic trees and the power of telepathic requests... You'd be like "excuse me?Tongue". You can't help but think "is this person crazy or something?", but you hold back these thoughts and try to discuss it. Then they get offended, offensive, defensive, emotional, undebatable and then you have this little awkward patch in your friendship and from there everything just seems to crumble.

EDIT* : All I'm saying is that it's hard to be a rational person and take somebody elses blatently reason-defying beliefs seriously. We all feel a need to say "woah, you're better than that type of thinking"
Great post luke.
Evf
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#12
RE: religious friends
I used to love going around asking people what their religion is and generally most people told me. I would continually question them of their beliefs.
Until, one day I met someone that wouldn't tell me.
They thought that their beliefs were a private and personal matter.
I didn't know how to respond to this. In fact I was eager to know and ended up very rude in pestering her to find out. lol.
Can you not share interests with someone without the conversation of religion?
Or if it comes to a spot of non-agreeance to simply disagree and move on?
(EVF: Could you not just say - okay we don't have the same views and continue to play your game? Because otherwise you are going to loose out if you keep sitting there licking your wounds. If you are going to have a conversation with somebody about religion .. you are need an awareness of the impact it may have on their emotions.)
I think if you are to approach somebody on their views there needs to be an element of respect in your choice of words. Are you there to prove them wrong? It sounds to me as though some atheists need to work on their listening skills. If you want to argue - fine but make sure it is the right place.
And yes I still think that some religious views are crazy. lol. And yes I am still agnostic with some atheist views.

I have been trying to think of what I might do for my 21st birthday and mind you - this is no easy task. My friends are all of different views. I get along with all of them. All respect my views and I respect theirs. The only thing is I can't help but feel nervous.. because I sense putting them all in a room together will set off a bomb. All my friends have never come all together as of such.
[Image: geelong_football_club.jpg]My site: http://puglover.org
Bex loves: skiing, bike riding, maths, pugs,
her atheist society, politics and religious studies.
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#13
RE: religious friends
Errrrm....wouldn't you find it hard to get to know someone...if they would never talk about music, sports, games, politics, etc?
If they acted like it was a private matter? And these people who are deeply religious but don't want to talk about it. Don't want their "Faith" questioned...often they're belief in religion is much stronger to them than the above things!
So if you really want to get to know such a person. And actually develop the friendship rather than just do small talk forever......you're going to want to know about their beliefs about the universe right?
Because religion shouldn't be kept any more private and the above things. Its just treated that way.
If I believed in the FSM, Zeus or the IPU that belief wouldn't be respected. So why on earth should a belief in a God or gods of one of the normal religions be respected?
It shouldn't. If thats going to be respected then every belief should be respected.
If I have a belief about politics that others strongly disagree with. I can't simply play the "faith" card and expect to be respected can I? So believers shouldn't be respected about religious beliefs if practically all other beliefs have the right to be questioned!!!
People would laugh at genuine believers in Zeus and the FSM etc. Why won't they at Yahweh and Allah? Etc.
If people won't let me get to know them then the friendship can't really develop can it!!!
They can ask me about my atheism, but I can't ask about their religion? When THEY'RE the ones claiming bullshit. They're the ones claiming things without evidence. They're the ones who hold the burden of proof
That actually sounds totally ridiculous to me.
The burden of proof is on the believer!
Evf
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#14
RE: religious friends
Quote:Errrrm....wouldn't you find it hard to get to know someone...if they would never talk about music, sports, games, politics, etc?
If they acted like it was a private matter?
HUH! But they don't!

Although in my country politics can also be seen as a private matter..
what is your opinion of this?

And what of those that are apathetic to such talk and like to keep the conversation 'light' - *evil glare at mother*

Look man,
the dog just eats his food and chases the ball..
look at him.. he is happy!

EVF: do you want your own town full of atheists? nothing but that of your own view aye?

why do i hear of atheists/agnostics/disbelievers cry when the man in the city square preaches?
[Image: geelong_football_club.jpg]My site: http://puglover.org
Bex loves: skiing, bike riding, maths, pugs,
her atheist society, politics and religious studies.
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#15
RE: religious friends
I didn't say that people act like those things were private matter. I was merely saying that if they did it would be crazy right? So why the hell isn't it considered the same as religion? It should be because those other things are criticized. And the burden of proof is on the believer.
Religions makes claims that are believed by the religious. Why shouldn't these claims be questioned like other beliefs? If anything needs criticism is religion.
Religion needs to be questioned. How could you just let it slide? Not only by doing so would you not getto know the person so much. But you're not allowing yourself to criticize things that you have every right to criticize. If theists can criticize atheists...atheist should be able to criticize theists right?
"God" is not a magic trump card. Although its often treated like one. And it obviously shouldn't be treated like one. Other things that are far less absurd are considered acceptable to criticize.
If a theist won't let me criticize his belief in God, then there's no reason he should be able to criticize ANY of my beliefs. Because "God" is certainly not above any other beliefs.
Because there's not any evidence for it at all! The burden of proof is on him/her!
If I believed a load of lies should he respect them/not question them? If I believed the earth was flat. If I believed that Elvis Presley was still alive....should he not be allowed to question me about this? Should he RESPECT me about this?
Or would he have every right to question why I believe such things, and try and understand why?
Since I am making such absurd claims?
Would I want people to be atheists? Yes I would think it would be better if people didn't base their lives on what is almost certainly just a delusion, that has no evidence to back the claims they believe in whatsoever. But I wouldn't expect it to happen all at once!! That would be absurd.
Evf
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#16
RE: religious friends
Sure I can agree to disagree and drop it. However if they had the first words on the subject I won't let them have the last especially if it's an ad homen or a "I'll pray for you."

And no, sorry, I refuse to respect religious beliefs. Or the people that hold them.[Image: smashfreakB.gif]
I used to tell a lot of religious jokes. Not any more, I'm a registered sects offender.
---------------
...the least christian thing a person can do is to become a christian. ~Chuck
---------------
NO MA'AM
[Image: attemptingtogiveadamnc.gif]
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#17
RE: religious friends
Okay than what about your psychologist or doctor.. do they have a right of privacy on their views?
[Image: geelong_football_club.jpg]My site: http://puglover.org
Bex loves: skiing, bike riding, maths, pugs,
her atheist society, politics and religious studies.
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#18
RE: religious friends
Yes there's no reason why religious beliefs should be respected any more than any other beliefs.
The idea that such delusional and potentially dangerous beliefs that have no supporting evidence to back them up and are claimed to be true... are expected to be respected! - Is extremely arrogant of the believer in fact! Scientists often go about to try and disprove each other. And to disprove themselves!
I think religious beliefs not only shouldn't be respected because there's no reason. I think there are good reasons why they deserve some disrespect in fact.
I don't disrespect believers without good reason (as with eveyone else). But I DO disrespect the beliefs they hold. The idea that such absurd claims about reality should be allowed - and expected them to not be questioned is not only delusional, like I said - its also potentially dangerous.
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#19
RE: religious friends
Go EvF Go!![Image: FIREdevil.gif]
(I couldn't find a 'rah-rah' cheering emoticon. So you git the devil)
I used to tell a lot of religious jokes. Not any more, I'm a registered sects offender.
---------------
...the least christian thing a person can do is to become a christian. ~Chuck
---------------
NO MA'AM
[Image: attemptingtogiveadamnc.gif]
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#20
RE: religious friends
LolSmile
Interesting emoticon.
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