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On Moral Authorities
#1
On Moral Authorities
What qualifies as one?

Firstly, let's give a plausible explanation of moral ethics. We will go with Kantian ethics because I think it does a very good job of explaining right/wrong. In a nutshell, Kant says that acting morally good is indifferent to acting rationally in order to achieve your will. The specific way in which one acts goes as follows:

The Formula of Universal Law Wrote:Act only on that maxim through which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law [of nature].

Here's an example:

Suppose you need to really badly pass an exam. You will it that selling cheat sheets is universally acceptable. Now cheat sheets are the norm, which means the lecturers have to change the way exams are done to remove the problem, I dunno, a unique set of questions for each student on the computer. Your universal rule didn't logically help you achieve your will, and coincidentally it's often regarded that cheating is wrong.

And another one:

Suppose you need to borrow money from your friend but you have no way of paying back. You will it that keeping promises isn't necessary. Now your friend can't trust any promises since it might be a lie. Therefore you weren't able to get what you wanted, and coincidentally it's often regarded that lying is wrong.

Something else that is part of Kant's ethics is that everyone should be an end in themselves and not a means to an end. He would often say that this rule was actually the same rule as the one above, though that's disputed these days. Either way, this rule helps to capture the essence of less straightforward examples, such as this:

why is it wrong to make a joke out of someone? The rest of the group gets to laugh, right? Well, because you've used that person as a means to your end - making everyone laugh. Humans aren't tools, don't you know?

Now, what does all of this have to do with authorities? Firstly, someone who is an authority has 
Google: define authority Wrote:the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.

therefore, giving orders etc. must mean the authority must have some sort of goal or intent - a will of some kind.  Well, suppose you were in a position where you could potentially help many people live better lives. Something like a president (oh, the irony) where you are equipped to actually cause change. Your will could very well be to destroy the world, but this won't be possible rationally without violating either rule. Therefore, if you want to act rationally, you will undoubtedly cause good. And to cause good with the position that you are in, you must therefore become an authority such that your commands are carried out in order to achieve your will. 

I suppose in this way, authority isn't given, but earned. And earning it would be a result of other people acting rationally, because if you have the resources in order to fulfill their will, then by their rationalization you must become an authority. After all, that is partly why we want certain people to become presidents, right (the irony!!!)?

Therefore, by this reasoning, the ultimate authority would have to be a being with the most resources available to it - something akin to a god. Not only would it be an authority since it has limitless resources, but it would also be a moral one since it has the foresight to know precisely if an action is ultimately rational or not.
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#2
RE: On Moral Authorities
There is no moral authority beyond the individual's conscience. Churches may seem to be an exception, yet people still pick and choose the maxims they embrace based on their individual conscience. Sometimes that conscience says to defer one's moral prerogatives to another. However the power flows from the individual to the putative authority.
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#3
RE: On Moral Authorities
Morality is simply a subjective evaluation of actions. There can be no "correct" morality, just opinions backed by reasoning. So a moral authority makes no sense. It's just another opinion.

There's also no reason to think that the most powerful being has intentions that any of us would choose to align ourselves with. It's what puzzles me about religion, the insistence that "God" is unquestionably "good".
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#4
RE: On Moral Authorities
Morality can only be objective with God. For, morality is about what is good action and what is bad. Now, to be good or to be bad is according to the fulfillment of the end of a something. For an instance, a good eyesight is an eyesight which can see clearly, for the end of eyes is to see. Now, the end of man is God, for man is created to know the truth and love the good, but God is the Truth and Goodness Himself, for all true and good things come from Him, because He is Being Himself, as proven by the arguments for God's existence. Therefore, without God, there can't be objective morality.

That's why, a government that is against natural law, is not a moral authority anymore, for the natural law shows what is good and what is bad by the use of reason alone, because by reason, we can know the nature and end of created things, and the end and nature of things are obviously the will of God, and God is the basis of objective morality, because that is not based from anyone's subjective major premise.

Hence, morality is not just about willing. It's about willing the truly good.
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#5
RE: On Moral Authorities
Quote:Morality can only be objective with God.

Now all you need is evidence for a god.  That's where you are going to run into trouble.
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#6
RE: On Moral Authorities
(November 9, 2016 at 4:40 pm)theologian Wrote: Morality can only be objective with God. For, morality is about what is good action and what is bad. Now, to be good or to be bad is according to the fulfillment of the end of a something. For an instance, a good eyesight is an eyesight which can see clearly, for the end of eyes is to see. Now, the end of man is God, for man is created to know the truth and love the good, but God is the Truth and Goodness Himself, for all true and good things come from Him, because He is Being Himself, as proven by the arguments for God's existence. Therefore, without God, there can't be objective morality.

I don't think that is possible. Morality is not objective because God is a perfect arbiter of good or bad. He has the power to enforce his will and we do not have the power to deny him. Thus, it is God's power that is the absolute, not any notions of what is good or bad.

If we can reason out why a particular action is good or bad, we may be able to determine that it is an absolute. I think that such absolutes are very rare and that our actions are often context-dependent. But if that determination is based on the authority of a power that cannot be resisted, then reason is unnecessary. God can order us to do things that we would consider horrific, yet they would be moral or good because he ordered it. Thus, any action could not, in itself, be good or bad.
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#7
RE: On Moral Authorities
(November 9, 2016 at 4:40 pm)theologian Wrote: Morality can only be objective with God.

Then there is no god and this thread is done. Thanks. Game Over!
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#8
RE: On Moral Authorities
Well, you certainly don't need to act rationally to act morally, though I think that what it means for something to be moral in the first place has a rational requirement.  

I'm not sure that you've even approached the essence of why x is wrong, in your examples, but as I said above, it's not as if you have to act or think rationally to reach the correct moral conclusion, lol. I'd go with something a little simpler.  Good is what helps, bad is what harms.

Quote:Now, what does all of this have to do with authorities? Firstly, someone who is an authority has 

therefore, giving orders etc. must mean the authority must have some sort of goal or intent - a will of some kind.
snipped - quote issue, plus, who cares...you're already reaching for what you want to see out of a dictionary, lol

LOL, no.  Authority neither needs to be a "someone", nor do rules require a will. Further...power wouldn't make a -moral- authority unless might made right.   

Quote:I suppose in this way, authority isn't given, but earned. And earning it would be a result of other people acting rationally, because if you have the resources in order to fulfill their will, then by their rationalization you must become an authority. After all, that is partly why we want certain people to become presidents, right (the irony!!!)?
I'm not much on will fulfillment as the source of morality.

Quote:Therefore, by this reasoning, the ultimate authority would have to be a being with the most resources available to it - something akin to a god. Not only would it be an authority since it has limitless resources, but it would also be a moral one since it has the foresight to know precisely if an action is ultimately rational or not.
Well, since you went off the rails in the first step, and reference something that I don;t grant credence to in the next...it;s not surprising that..when you go telling us about what "ultimate" must mean here I neither agree nor care.

I'm not sure why you seem to think something "akin to a god" is the ultimate moral authority. Even imagining that the moral authority needs a will, to align itself to will fulfillment, and have the most resources available to achieve that....the "ultimate moral authority" could be a guy in Jersey named Joe.

Honestly,. I don't think that there was a single mention of a credible morality, let alone a credible moral authority, in that entire post.
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#9
RE: On Moral Authorities
(November 9, 2016 at 3:49 am)robvalue Wrote: Morality is simply a subjective evaluation of actions. There can be no "correct" morality, just opinions backed by reasoning.

But I guess you would be surprised how much of that is shaped by the societies we live in as well as by the individual's upbringing.

I can only say the same I always said when someone talked about morality. We are a social species. We need some kinds of accepted and unaccepted behavior to live and work as a group. That's what morality actually is. Rules to keep strive within the group to a minimum.
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#10
RE: On Moral Authorities
Morality can only be objective with God.

nope god provides no basis for objective morality 

any appeal to his nature or his intentions is circular or just trying to de facto define attributes on to it because it suits your apologetic s 
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