Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: March 28, 2024, 6:39 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
#71
RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
I'm not understanding the point. You can just relabel the universe as god if it makes one happy to do so. I don't see a problem with that; neither do I see the point.

Being "alive" means whatever we say it means, it's a subjective interpretation of reality. So sure, we could say the universe is "alive" if we want, but who said god has to be alive anyway? The word means literally nothing, and we've already said it is the universe. God hasn't been mapped to anything real ever, not even in a very vague abstract sense, so no one can say what it isn't. Everyone makes up their own stuff, even people in the same religion.

For example, ignorant is describing to me in another thread that god is like the act of me being myself, or something. I could just disallow that, but on what grounds? It's not enough like the man in the clouds which is obviously what people are thinking of but trying so hard not to say?
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply
#72
RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
When I say God isn't mapped to anything, contrast it with a dragon. These aren't real creatures, but they do map quite closely to things that are real. They're live animals, with four legs, scales and wings... and so on. We have enough criteria to be able to roughly say what is and isn't a dragon, given a drawing of one. We agree.

Not so with a god. There's nothing that's universally agreed, as far as I'm aware. Nothing real that it is remotely like. So as far as I'm concerned, it means anything and nothing. Often not even being a creator of a reality is enough for something to be a god, according to many people. And it needn't even be that, according to pantheists. So it's just "whatever".
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply
#73
RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
(November 14, 2016 at 4:18 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: Yes. "Lack"'s primary denotation and connotation is one of "Not enough" or IOW... "Something is lacking".

I feel like whenever we tell the theists that we lack belief it's like we're throwing them a fricken ball with "Opportunity For You Theists To Equivocate" written on it lol.


What if we say to them "I lack belief in gods just as I lack the disgusting habit of boring people to tears telling them how they ought to fear my special boogyman"?  Would that get it done?
Reply
#74
RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
Yes. The amusing snark makes it clear that you don't literally think you lack it.

Although they still might completely ignore the latter half of your statement and cherry pick you "Oh so you lack belief in gods eh? You admit it! You know you ought to believe and look at me with my confirmation bias please punch me!" theists tend to say stuff like that all the time right? Tongue

Nah it's just my O.C.D. at work. Like really you don't lack disgusting habits either Tongue People with disgusting habits lack non-disgusting habits Tongue
Reply
#75
RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
I can't believe I forgot the single biggest reason NOT to label yourself "agnostic".  We've all (well, most of us, apparently) had that time where someone asks us about our beliefs, we say that we're atheist, they freeze up for a moment, make the sign of the cross and back away slowly.  Or they go off on us, telling us how we're going to hell.  They burn bright, but they burn out quickly.  We're used to it.  But do you know what they hear when you say you're agnostic?  They hear, "I am ALMOST convinced God is real.  I just need someone to spend the next few months with me telling my why their beliefs, alone, are right in a see of wrong beliefs."  And you can't get them to stop until they see you actively perform a Satanic ritual.  It's a lot easier than you might think.  You basically need a pentagram, a stick to hold above your head and shake now and then and a rudimentary understanding of the German language.  Everything sounds Satanic when you say it in German.
Have you ever noticed all the drug commercials on TV lately?  Why is it the side effects never include penile enlargement or super powers?
Side effects may include super powers or enlarged penis which may become permanent with continued use.  Stop taking Killatol immediately and consult your doctor if you experience penis enlargement of more than 3 inches, laser vision, superhuman strength, invulnerability, the ability to explode heads with your mind or time travel.  Killatoll is not for everyone, especially those who already have convertibles or vehicles of ridiculous size to supplement penis size.
Reply
#76
RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
(November 14, 2016 at 8:05 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Would you then say the HUMAN isn't alive, it is just the neurons inside him which are alive?  No, that doesn't work, either, because the neurons themselves are 99.9999999% empty space, too.  So, for that matter, are all the atoms in the neurons.
You know that the reason it "doesn't work" has to do with your atrocious formulation and not anything to do with how we determine what is and what is not alive, where the boundaries of that living thing lie, and at what point we exit those boundaries and move into the non-living subsrate in which it exists...right?  None of it has -anything- to do with your fascination of spatial appropriation at relative scales.  

Quote:It's kind of paradoxical, really-- there's nothing that humans are made up of that can knowingly be said to be life/alive, and yet here we are-- living out our days with intent, and sense of purpose, and a rich subjective experience of our actions and their consequences.
I'm made up of quite a bit that can be said to be life.......my simplest building block is a cell, the basic unit for all known living organisms.  Each one is alive.

The idea that it would be sensible to call the universe a living thing, because it has living things in it, makes about as much sense as calling a jar a living thing for being chock full of fireflies.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Reply
#77
RE: Agnostic Skepticism- My Views
(November 17, 2016 at 5:05 am)Rhythm Wrote: I'm made up of quite a bit that can be said to be life.......my simplest building block is a cell, the basic unit for all known living organisms.  Each one is alive.

The idea that it would be sensible to call the universe a living thing, because it has living things in it, makes about as much sense as calling a jar a living thing for being chock full of fireflies.
And I qualified that, didn't I? I asked in what sense an individual universe, with nothing to interact with, could be called alive.

Anyway, as usual this all comes down to semantics. How do you define life? Sentience? The ability to interact? Something which consumes part of its environment and reforms it? The universe couldn't do the latter, by definition. It could be sentient, I don't know, and I'm not sure even mind qualifies something to be called alive-- certainly by your definitions of mind, it wouldn't. But nobody says God has to be alive-- I'd say a massive sentience would for sure be callable by the word "God."

But your semantics are too anthropocentric. Are you solid, or are you empty space?
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Punk Rock Skepticism chimp3 2 766 August 17, 2017 at 10:23 am
Last Post: vorlon13
  Pretend skepticism snerie 2 738 June 18, 2017 at 5:16 am
Last Post: downbeatplumb
  Teaching skepticism mihoda 14 2068 January 22, 2017 at 6:35 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  Pseudo-skepticism chimp3 0 965 July 21, 2016 at 4:43 am
Last Post: chimp3
  Needed: A new sub-subforum: "Skepticism, Pseudoscience & Just Plain Bat Shit Crazy" Whateverist 26 7699 February 16, 2015 at 5:24 pm
Last Post: Confused Ape
  False skepticism CapnAwesome 35 11067 December 9, 2012 at 8:37 am
Last Post: Cyberman
  Skepticism Debunked!!! :P Lehrling 10 3315 December 1, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Last Post: Doubting Thomas



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)