Politically Toxic

[abaris]

I did not make this shit up.

So prove this isn't just an ideal. I don't think so, since, as I said several times by now, you don't need to use the keywords to be a sexist or racist dick. It happens all the times without there being any consequences.

[paulpablo]

On the other hand, in cases where the wording is continuous and obviously bullying or targeting someone intentionally then action should be taken.

Isn't that action taken what PC is? Or at least how it began?

I'm not sure how it began.  But as I said before there's a broad spectrum of people who argue against political correctness and a broad spectrum of the type of political correctness they're arguing about.

I argue against political correctness that I think is over doing it, it doesn't mean I want to be able to kick a black, muslim, disabled, lesbian pregnant woman in the stomach in the work place and be able to get away with it.

Action should be taken against any forms of bullying in the work place whoever it's against, whether it's on the basis of them being a minority or not.

I think some forms of political correctness is overdoing it and I think some forms of anti political correctness is overdoing it.  I'm very boringly in the middle and on the side of common sense.

[Eugeny_Anatolievich]

PC looks like a kind of censorship.

[chimp3]

I did not make this shit up.

So prove this isn't just an ideal. I don't think so, since, as I said several times by now, you don't need to use the keywords to be a sexist or racist dick. It happens all the times without there being any consequences.

When I said I was not an idealist I am stating that the PC environment is not my ideal. The point of my OP is that enough shitty ideas existed to create the environment from which PC grew in reaction to those shitty ideas. No one else with better ideas stepped up with enough efficacy to make a dent in the "festering sore". My personal ideal is that everyone behave themselves. Then we won't need cops of any kind.

[chimp3]

PC looks like a kind of censorship.

Exactly! Workplaces enacted PC approaches to employee conduct policies because people with shitty behaviors would not censor themselves.They needed authority figures to provide structure to contain them.

[paulpablo]

I think what this thread is about is basically around the same basis as a thread I was going to start but just couldn't be bothered.

I think a lot of this PC vs non PC thing revolves around trust or distrust in human nature and how much you think human nature needs to be governed by groups of people.

A few questions which I don't have the answer to one way or the other are....

How much of the PC culture that is going on now is the government responsible for?  And I don't mean the over the top PC culture I mean simple things like reducing racism and sexism in the work place.

Without government intervention how badly would people treat each other in the work place.

Are people who are without religion or political power hanging over them naturally sexist, racist, xenophobic people?  I mean I know religion and government sometimes causes these things but they can effectively prevent it to an extent. 

I don't live in America, but I get the impression that there's severe differences in how a lack of political intervention would work in different locations there.

This is a topic where I admit I don't know the exact answer of what is right or wrong.  I'll be on the PC side sometimes but then I'll watch a youtube video of someone who makes incredibly good arguments against government intervention in the work place and on the other hand people who are for PC make up good arguments for government intervention.

[chimp3]

I think what this thread is about is basically around the same basis as a thread I was going to start but just couldn't be bothered.

I think a lot of this PC vs non PC thing revolves around trust or distrust in human nature and how much you think human nature needs to be governed by groups of people.

A few questions which I don't have the answer to one way or the other are....

How much of the PC culture that is going on now is the government responsible for?  And I don't mean the over the top PC culture I mean simple things like reducing racism and sexism in the work place.

Without government intervention how badly would people treat each other in the work place.

Are people who are without religion or political power hanging over them naturally sexist, racist, xenophobic people?  I mean I know religion and government sometimes causes these things but they can effectively prevent it to an extent. 

I don't live in America, but I get the impression that there's severe differences in how a lack of political intervention would work in different locations there.

This is a topic where I admit I don't know the exact answer of what is right or wrong.  I'll be on the PC side sometimes but then I'll watch a youtube video of someone who makes incredibly good arguments against government intervention in the work place and on the other hand people who are for PC make up good arguments for government intervention.

I can make an argument against government intervention all day long. That is one reason I vote libertarian. However , Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and remained a slaveowner.  It took a civil war and then the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to get people to begin behaving themselves. Almost 200 years.The opportunity was there for people to behave themselves but they did not. The cops had to be called.
Outside of the governments interventions, PC arguments are influencing  culture in other ways. The film industry is criticised for under representing minorities, stereotyping , ageism, etc. The market makes the final decisions in that area.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't mind respecting someone's sensibilities, but not at the expense of language. It doesn't hurt me to be considerate, but the idea of bowing to strictures which can strip language of meaning is obnoxious.

My feeling is that no one can offend me without my permission. I think the same holds true of others; they must allow themselves to be offended.

If you truly find something offensive, is not the best way to confront it speaking out against it? Cockroaches hate sunlight. Why close the shutters?

[abaris]

I don't mind respecting someone's sensibilities, but not at the expense of language. It doesn't hurt me to be considerate, but the idea of bowing to strictures which can strip language of meaning is obnoxious.

My feeling is that no one can offend me without my permission. I think the same holds true of others; they must allow themselves to be offended.

If you truly find something offensive, is not the best way to confront it speaking out against it? Cockroaches hate sunlight. Why close the shutters?

I agree with your sentiment of noone being able to insult without permission. To feel insulted it takes some level of respect prior to the attempted insult.

I also agree with the cockroach part, since it ties perfectly into my main argument against what goes for PC culture these days. It only brushes the issue under the rug to ferment and fester there. Someone feeling like saying Nigger won't stop thinking Nigger and to act accordingly just because someone says "naughty boy, wash your mouth". Someone feeling like degrading women won't suddenly turn into the perfect gentleman. And someone feeling like calling gays faggoths won't suddenly take part in a gay pride parade.

Better drag them out to the open instead of giving the appearance of being a great, loving and tolerant community when we're anything but.