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Current time: 23rd January 2017, 04:33

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What's your thoughts on Trump?
#31
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
(1st December 2016, 14:27)Napoléon Wrote: Evidently, if we all did the same research and came to the same conclusions on the back of it, we wouldn't be here. It's a discussion, so discuss. Present your case if you please. Saying "it's obvious" doesn't cut it. It's like a theist saying god is self-evident.

It has been discussed ad nauseam already. His choice of staff and his appointments are all over the news. So it's not as if any of this would come as a surprise.

So, I can only repeat what I said about people still seeing him as a kind of Maverick. Or any rightwinger for that matter. Trump's not an original after all.
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#32
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
(1st December 2016, 14:39)abaris Wrote: It has been discussed ad nauseam already. His choice of staff and his appointments are all over the news. So it's not as if any of this would come as a surprise.

So, I can only repeat what I said about people still seeing him as a kind of Maverick. Or any rightwinger for that matter. Trump's not an original after all.

Fab, thanks for the input.
Best assessment of the US election on this forum: http://atheistforums.org/thread-46143-po...pid1441365
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#33
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
Cheeto Hitler.  Utterly narcissistic, pathological liar.  Sociopath.  Thankfully, not too bright.  Unfortunately, Pence is freakin' scary, so now we have to hope Trump stays healthy.
Elected by rabid xtians and racists and misogynists.  -- As well as some stupid idiots who actually believed he gave a shit about their jobs and rights.
But we have had 8 years of progress, under a (gasp!) BLACK president.  There was bound to be some pushback.
And now the morons that voted for him are in for a yuge disappointment.
"Nothing that a Christian and a Muslim can say to each other will render their beliefs mutually vulnerable to discourse, because the very tenets of their faith have immunized them against the power of conversation."  -- Sam Harris
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#34
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
(1st December 2016, 14:36)Napoléon Wrote:
(1st December 2016, 14:27)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Swampy in the sense that his cabinet and administration will still be run by career politicians and corporate influences.  He's made it dreadfully clear that his knowledge of policy and intent to learn isn't exactly stellar - so he's getting 'the best' people to do that for him.

Okay well let's look at if he'd of played it differently.

What would honestly happen? His cabinet and administration will always include career politicians. If he just started appointing random business people or think-tank aficionados he'd be crucified for it.

What he's made clear is that he's willing to take advice and listen to the people who are more than likely better placed than himself, and then make a decision based on their input. What would you rather? That he just hamfists every decision?

Why is it when Trump comes out with this, it's seen as Trump 'not having any intent to learn', when if it was anyone else it would be seen as a great thing?

Isn't listening to others a positive? Isn't getting input on major decisions from bright minds something that should be commended? In one breath people are worried he will become an Adolf Hitler dictator, in another you criticise him for doing the exact opposite and saying he will get aid in making decisions rather than making them alone?

Surely you can see the bias here?


Quote:He himself isn't stuck in the same mold of political cronyism and corruption as Clinton simply due to the fact that he hasn't yet had a chance to be.  And you're right, Trump might not be beholden to special interest groups, but the people he's choosing to run the country for him sure as hell are.  I'm not talking about Trump as an individual, I'm talking about his cabinet and administration as a whole.

Absolutely and I don't doubt it, but from the Top you have a guy who isn't beholden to special interests. I mean, he isn't backing down from his anti-lobbyist promise is he? If anything he's gone full steam ahead and outlined EXACTLY what he's going to do. Yet even that is still not enough.

I see a lot of criticism for Trump supporters that 'nothing you say will sway them'. Seems to me the opposite is as true with those on the anti-Trump train. Anything remotely positive is blocked out like it isn't happening.

You're right - I would much prefer someone who is willing to learn from those more qualified than him.  I'd much prefer he appoint experienced politicians to the cabinet (like he's doing).  I'd prefer he learn from others.  What I'm pointing at is none of that has anything to do with 'shaking up the system' or 'draining the swamp.'  Can Trump somewhere down the line put forward an initiative that can make significant change to the system?  I hope so, sure.

I suppose I'm speaking more to what his campaign has promised, and certainly what his supporters have repeated over and over.  There is no grand 'shake up' of the system happening (yet, at least), and he hasn't stuck it to the career swampers or 'told it how it is' on a world stage.  It's like his campaign didn't realize that it takes years to affect any change of significance in federal government.  Or, they already knew that and promised dramatic change anyway.    But when will this shake up happen?  After he learns what he needs to know, is he going to then stick it to the system?  I'm just trying to reconcile what he harped on over and over during his campaign and what his supporters said were the reasons they voted for him, and what he's doing now.

Like I said, I really, desperately hopes he impresses me.  I just don't see it yet.

And for the record, his lobbying ban doesn't do nearly as much as some people think it does, but it is a good start. If it materializes into something more forceful, I'd happily chalk that up in the "Impressive" column for Trump.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#35
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
(1st December 2016, 14:47)FatAndFaithless Wrote: You're right - I would much prefer someone who is willing to learn from those more qualified than him.  I'd much prefer he appoint experienced politicians to the cabinet (like he's doing).  I'd prefer he learn from others.  What I'm pointing at is none of that has anything to do with 'shaking up the system' or 'draining the swamp.'  Can Trump somewhere down the line put forward an initiative that can make significant change to the system?  I hope so, sure.

But this is the thing dude, the guy isn't even in office yet. Massive scale political change ain't going to just 'happen' overnight is it? Give the bloke a chance to actually do something first.

Fair enough, if after 4 years the American economy is in the shitter, politics is as corrupt as it's always been, go for it. Absolutely crucify the guy. But he isn't even in power yet.

Quote:And for the record, his lobbying ban doesn't do nearly as much as some people think it does, but it is a good start.  If it materializes into something more forceful, I'd happily chalk that up in the "Impressive" column for Trump.

Maybe not but give the guy credit for actually trying to deliver on a promise. He's already done more than Hillary has ever done in her entire political career to tackle this issue and like I said above, he isn't even in the job yet lol.

I think time will ultimately tell. As I see it there's a lot of whining and scaremongering and criticism but to be frank it's all just an echochamber of unchallenged thought that the media perpetuates. I for one am very interested in what the next four years holds, and I don't think it's going to be world war 3.
Best assessment of the US election on this forum: http://atheistforums.org/thread-46143-po...pid1441365
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#36
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
(1st December 2016, 14:57)Napoléon Wrote:
(1st December 2016, 14:47)FatAndFaithless Wrote: You're right - I would much prefer someone who is willing to learn from those more qualified than him.  I'd much prefer he appoint experienced politicians to the cabinet (like he's doing).  I'd prefer he learn from others.  What I'm pointing at is none of that has anything to do with 'shaking up the system' or 'draining the swamp.'  Can Trump somewhere down the line put forward an initiative that can make significant change to the system?  I hope so, sure.

But this is the thing dude, the guy isn't even in office yet. Massive scale political change ain't going to just 'happen' overnight is it? Give the bloke a chance to actually do something first.

Fair enough, if after 4 years the American economy is in the shitter, politics is as corrupt as it's always been, go for it. Absolutely crucify the guy. But he isn't even in power yet.

Quote:And for the record, his lobbying ban doesn't do nearly as much as some people think it does, but it is a good start.  If it materializes into something more forceful, I'd happily chalk that up in the "Impressive" column for Trump.

Maybe not but give the guy credit for actually trying to deliver on a promise. He's already done more than Hillary has ever done in her entire political career to tackle this issue and like I said above, he isn't even in the job yet lol.

Again, no argument from me about Hillary doing jack shit about corruption.  I said Trump's idea is a good start.

Quote:Massive scale political change ain't going to just 'happen' overnight is it?

Exactly.  But that's what the campaign ran on, and a gigantic shake up of the system is what his supporters ostensibly wanted.

And you're right, he's not in office yet, so of course he hasn't had the chance to actually implement any of his ideas.  I'm just giving my thoughts on Trump (the title of the thread) and expressing my skepticism about him and the promises he has made. I'm not insulting him or his supporters because that's neither relevant nor helpful - just giving my two cents.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#37
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
(30th November 2016, 15:35)Bella Morte Wrote:
(30th November 2016, 15:10)downbeatplumb Wrote: The US has lost the high ground. I can no longer support its place as leader of the free world.

They don't need your support.

Maybe, but I 'm not alone surely. You can forgive the US much but not this, not this.
There was once a dream that was the US, you could only whisper it , but now that dream has been corrupted by greed ,racism and stupidity.
Opinions are like arseholes.
Once somethings firmly in there its very hard to dislodge.





 








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#38
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
(1st December 2016, 15:02)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(30th November 2016, 15:35)Bella Morte Wrote: They don't need your support.

Maybe, but I 'm not alone surely. You can forgive the US much but not this, not this.
There was once a dream that was the US, you could only whisper it , but now that dream has been corrupted by greed ,racism and stupidity.

A Trump presidency isn't the apocalypse, you know.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#39
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
(1st December 2016, 15:01)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Exactly.  But that's what the campaign ran on, and a gigantic shake up of the system is what his supporters ostensibly wanted.

Eh, was it though? A gigantic shake up perhaps, but an overnight one? I don't remember seeing those placards.

Quote:And you're right, he's not in office yet, so of course he hasn't had the chance to actually implement any of his ideas.  I'm just giving my thoughts on Trump (the title of the thread) and expressing my skepticism about him and the promises he has made.  

Sure dude wouldn't ever bash you for it, just discussing and throwing things at you/the forum.

Quote:I'm not insulting him or his supporters because that's neither relevant nor helpful - just giving my two cents.

I'm glad of that, I wouldn't class myself as a Trump supporter so much as a Trump sympathiser. What bugs me is that Trump supporters often get bashed for being intolerant racist nazis, when the only intolerance I really see is from the Left. I mean how many people have you seen be disowned from their families for being a Hillary supporter?
Best assessment of the US election on this forum: http://atheistforums.org/thread-46143-po...pid1441365
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#40
RE: What's your thoughts on Trump?
(1st December 2016, 15:02)downbeatplumb Wrote:
(30th November 2016, 15:35)Bella Morte Wrote: They don't need your support.

Maybe, but I 'm not alone surely. You can forgive the US much but not this, not this.
There was once a dream that was the US, you could only whisper it , but now that dream has been corrupted by greed ,racism and stupidity.

You're acting like a Trump presidency is the end of the US.

It's getting old now.
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