Antinatalism

[bennyboy]

Yeh.

You could be anti-breathing, too. You'd suffer for a couple of minutes, and then avoid maybe 40 years in which you curse all your suffering and completely ignore any good or pleasure that you might experience. The asymmetric hedonism behind antinatalism is arguably the most counterproductive philosophical idea I've come across.

Now, if one's reason for antinatalism were more pragmatic, I'd be 100% fine with it: "I don't like kids, and there are too many people in the world anyway, so I don't see any benefit in reproducing" is a perfectly legitimate and ethical position. "I don't want to create kids, because they'll suffer and their potential joys and pleasures are philosophically unimportant. . ." that's just depressing goth talk.

[Rhizomorph13]

The world is pain,
My mascara runs,
The beat of a drum,
Like the hollow pit in my stomach,
I try to make a baby,
But realize it is only a shit;
Life,
is,
SHIT.

L,
O,
L?

[Thumpalumpacus]

OP starts four threads, returns to none of them.

[bennyboy]

The world is pain,
My mascara runs,
The beat of a drum,
Like the hollow pit in my stomach,
I try to make a baby,
But realize it is only a shit;
Life,
is,
SHIT.

L,
O,
L?

I just realized that you weren't talking about League of Legends.

But you soooooo could be.

[Athena777]

I completely agree with Benny. Antinatalism is extremely counterproductive. The more you get into pessimism, determinism, the things antinatalists believe, the more you'll just hate being alive and have to wait for what seems like an eternity to die. And then you'll be dead, which is no relief, because it's just death. I stay away from people who think like this.

[robvalue]

Antinatalism is the philosophy that ascribes a negative value to existence.  It stipulates that having children is immoral because you impose suffering on a new entity without its consent.

There are some logically valid points.  For example: there's no moral obligation to impose pleasure.  But there is a moral obligation not to impose harm.

Another example: when people think about imposing life, they say "what about the joys?" But what about the joys of drugs?  Would you impose drug addiction on someone?

But most antinatalists strike me as profoundly depressed people who I can't relate to. I'm happy and wouldn't feel so guilty if I ended up having a kid.

Personally, I don't automatically assign any value to existence, positive or negative. I take each on its merits. I wouldn't tell anyone else what to do, but I would never have children. I don't think I can justify it to myself. I don't feel comfortable making some kind of net pleasure/pain prediction.

I see life as equal parts blessing and curse.

So yes, pointing out "the good parts" is not an argument. I don't consider good/bad experiences to be in the same currency. Lots of good ones do not simply cancel out bad ones leaving an overall worth; even if things end up that way round.

People have children because they want children. It's not any more complex. This is just my opinion.