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Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
#11
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
If all religion ever accomplished was to make believers into better people (and yes, 'better' is a question-begging term, I'm aware), I'd be all for it.

Unfortunately, religion also causes massive restriction, oppression, violence, and frequently institutionalizes and rewards ignorance.  Further, the notion that religion brings 'inner peace', while certainly true in some cases, frequently does just the opposite.  Muslim, Christian, Jewish, and Hindu terrorists don't really evince inner peace.  The Buddhist monks who set themselves alight as an admittedly dedicated form of protest seem to be displaying at least some inner turmoil.  Millions of people every day, all faiths, all cultures, feel cripplingly inadequate because they can't live up to the religious strictures placed on them - tell the 14 year old boy that he's going to hell because he rubs one out now and then, or the pubescent girl that she is 'unclean' during and after her menses.  Far from inculcating a sense if 'inner peace', religion saddles people with guilt over events and feelings they can't control.

No, I wouldn't encourage anyone to be religious.

Boru
‘But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no gods. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.’ - Thomas Jefferson
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#12
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
Reliance on superstition, magical thinking and imaginary friends? No, I'd rather encourage people to find practical ways to overcome their problems that don't have dangerous side effects.

Also, "encouraging" someone to be religious generally means indoctrinating/brainwashing them at least to some degree. It's not something you can just suggest to someone as a life choice if they didn't previously believe in it.
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#13
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
[Image: ElbertD.jpg]
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#14
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
(December 25, 2016 at 2:15 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: If all religion ever accomplished was to make believers into better people (and yes, 'better' is a question-begging term, I'm aware), I'd be all for it.

That was the point I was going to make when I read the OP. Religion often comes with negative baggage, and not everyone will agree to strip it away in order to keep the good. The guy who lives his life by "love thy neighbor" but also thinks gays should be put to death is supported by his sacred texts on both points. And if that seems too extreme, let's check in on the gay teenager who stays in the closet because he knows how his devout, godly parents will react when they find out.

If there's a religion that teaches people to be kind, generous and supportive of one another without any of the baggage then you're at step one. Step two would be to get people to stop believing in racist, genocidal, homophobic, angry and violent gods and convert to the religion that tries to make us better people in all respects.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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#15
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
There was a time when I considered that maintaining the official state religion may have some benefit on society as a whole.
Observations of the CofE in times when such direction could easily have been shown, eg; the aftermath of Islamist terrorist attacks, the Church chose to justify and excuse the terrorists, blame the victims.
This is not the occasional aberration but a consistent policy to promote 'faith'.
Ultimately there can be no quarter, The bishops must be purged from the Upper House and their influence ended.
Quote:I don't understand why you'd come to a discussion forum, and then proceed to reap from visibility any voice that disagrees with you. If you're going to do that, why not just sit in front of a mirror and pat yourself on the back continuously?
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Evolution - Adapt or be eaten.
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#16
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
(December 25, 2016 at 3:47 am)pool the great Wrote: A popular argument atheists (like myself) have against religion is that religion often causes conflict and has been the driving factor of many unnecessary disputes and deaths throughout the human history.

This is true. Religion can cause conflict but what if it doesn't?

A belief in God often motivates people to be moralistic. I've heard people say how less afraid they are in the dark when they feel a powerful protector is right beside them, how more confident they feel, how much more motivated they get when they know a pain free life is waiting for them after their death.

I'm of the opinion that if something like religion can help cultivate inner peace for an individual we should no doubt encourage it. What do you think?

numbers don't support banning religion.  lessening power is one thing, banning goes against observations.  ban booze before religion if we are basing the ban on harming people.
anti-logical Fallacies of Ambiguity
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#17
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
(December 25, 2016 at 1:53 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: If someone needs religion to not become a murderous rapist, by all means I want them to continue believing.

This. Religion is a tool. Its a way to keep large groups of ignorant people in line. I don't really believe that we would see the murder rate increase by a factor of ten if religion went away tomorrow. But I do believe murder and violent crime would increase without religion. 

And its not just the murder rate that would change. Take a look at how many people want to persecute and/or target those who are gay and use their religion to justify it. These are people who NEED someone to hate. Now take away their religion. It doesn't take away their need to hate. Instead you take away the need for them to justify their hate with an ancient book. IOW you give them free rein to aim their hate at anyone they disagree with. Religion is a tool and the last thing we want is a society without it. At least in the US. 

Now if you carefully and skillfully change the culture over several hundred generations? Then maybe things would be better without religion. But these mother fuckers we're living with today? Trust me, you want them staying on the jesus train because the alternative would suck for everyone.
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#18
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
I don't know. The secularization of Europe was't planned or managed, and they seem to be doing fine.

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#19
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
It is probably less invasive than a lobotomy.
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#20
RE: Religion should be encouraged if it has positive effects on people.What do you think?
(December 25, 2016 at 9:30 am)Mermaid Wrote:
(December 25, 2016 at 3:57 am)Rhythm Wrote: I suppose the trick would be finding something that cultivates inner peace, rather than cultivating pious professions of inner peace bundled with all the other shit.

Like Buddhism. Which isn't exactly a religion, but..

It is a religion, exactly, and even though the buddhists like to say they have inner peace without all the other shit (particularly those who have repackaged, rebranded and exported buddhism for a western audience, in order to gain western influence).. the truth of the matter is that buddhists get up to the other shit just as often as anyone else, their pious professions of inner peace being betrayed by their actions as a faith group- again, just like the rest.
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