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**robvalue** · December 26, 2016 at 1:34 pm

Religion seems to have to have some sort of superstitious dogma. Otherwise, it's just a standard philosophy. Dogma is the exact opposite of what I would want to encourage in people. It's stupid, stifles rational thought and growth, and is potentially dangerous.

**vorlon13** · December 26, 2016 at 2:16 pm

johan · December 26, 2016 at 2:42 pm

(December 26, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I don't know. The secularization of Europe was't planned or managed, and they seem to be doing fine.

The US ain't Europe. I wish we were more like Europe but we're not.

Thumpalumpacus · December 26, 2016 at 2:53 pm

(December 26, 2016 at 2:42 pm)johan Wrote:
(December 26, 2016 at 12:33 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote: I don't know. The secularization of Europe was't planned or managed, and they seem to be doing fine.

The US ain't Europe. I wish we were more like Europe but we're not.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were speaking about Americans specifically; there were no geographical/national referents in your post.

I'm still not so sure we Americans can't and won't navigate the same transition with a similar grace. I think it's already started, given the demographics of the religious over the last 20 or so years.

GUBU · December 26, 2016 at 4:16 pm

(December 25, 2016 at 9:30 am)Mermaid Wrote:
(December 25, 2016 at 3:57 am)Rhythm Wrote: I suppose the trick would be finding something that cultivates inner peace, rather than cultivating pious professions of inner peace bundled with all the other shit.

Like Buddhism. Which isn't exactly a religion, but..

Except that buddhism doesn't always manage to be peaceful. For one example there was the expansionist, warring and brutal Tibetan empire, for another, more modern, one look at what is being done in Myanmar against the Rohingya people, largely lead by Buddhist monks.

johan · December 26, 2016 at 4:22 pm

(December 26, 2016 at 2:53 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(December 26, 2016 at 2:42 pm)johan Wrote: The US ain't Europe. I wish we were more like Europe but we're not.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were speaking about Americans specifically; there were no geographical/national referents in your post.

I'm still not so sure we Americans can't and won't navigate the same transition with a similar grace. I think it's already started, given the demographics of the religious over the last 20 or so years.

Yeah perhaps. One thing is certain, the culture is what MUST drive any mass move toward secularism. The people have to decide they want it on their own and move toward it on their own. That is the only way we get there without chaos.

And even then, I still think I'd sleep better knowing a lot of the fundies we have really do believe there's a sky daddy that will punish them if they don't mind their manners.

comet · December 26, 2016 at 7:06 pm

can't let government teach morals. Parents, in many areas, clearly are not good enough. so who does it?

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: December 26, 2016 at 8:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)

Vaguery and minutiae aside, morals don't appear to be the sort of thing that needs to be taught. At best (and at worst), governments, religion, parents et al reenforce in that category, they don't impose or teach.

comet · December 26, 2016 at 8:23 pm

(December 26, 2016 at 8:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Vaguery and minutiae aside, morals don't appear to be the sort of thing that needs to be taught. At best (and at worst), governments, religion, parents et al reenforce in that category, they don't impose or teach.

they don't need to be taught?

wow, just wow.

**BrianSoddingBoru4** · December 26, 2016 at 8:30 pm

Quote:And even then, I still think I'd sleep better knowing a lot of the fundies we have really do believe there's a sky daddy that will punish them if they don't mind their manners.

The trouble with that is the fundies who believe the sky daddy will punish them if they don't murder heretics and unbelievers.

Boru

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