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Current time: 23rd January 2017, 04:29

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Heated debate on evolution with brother
#31
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
Avoid the subject at all costs. You're never going to convince him, he's never going to convince you. It's a totally pointless and potentially damaging exercise.
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#32
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
(3rd January 2017, 17:45)MyelinSheath Wrote: He's not going to believe a source coming from an atheist author who he perceives to be "liberal". Francis Collins is about the only scientist I know to point him to as an example of someone who is not an atheist, but who understands and accepts evolution as science understands it. His views on science are totally skewed and messed up. He's a business man and an engineer. He is very opinionated, very good at solving problems, very good at managing money, planning ahead, and coming up with innovative approaches to business and engineering, but he's ignorant as can be about science, and very attached to his own opinions. There simply is no wiggle room there. He thinks he's so smart, and right about everything.

hmmm...
"opinionated"?
"intelligent"?
"thinks he's smart and right about everything"?


Well, the solution is clear: you just need to tell him that he is clearly wrong. Any blonde chick can understand his mistake.
That he can't is a product of brainwashing at its finest. (no, don't tell him this bit... we're working on insulting his intellect)

1. So, mister smart and right about everything... and very religious... Christian religious... tell me, Jesus was born a Jew, pretty much like John the Baptist... ah... but which kind of jew were they?
Pharisee?
Sadducee?
Essene?


2. The evolution of the god (lol, evolution.... see what I did there?)
2.1 What was the main characteristic of the Mesopotamic god "Anu"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anu



2.2 What was the main characteristic of the god of Israel "El"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)



2.3 What was the main characteristic of the Jewish god "YHWH"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh



2.4 And the christian god? Everyone knows he's "the father", right?


3. Why do people kneel and worship an all mighty, all loving entity? Why would that god care about worship? Is god vain? Does he require it? Or do the people in charge of the religion require it?
Why would such a god care about what people write about him?
What is the difference between belief in the existence of this god and following the rules of a religion which follows this god?
What is the difference between a god and a religion?
Would you follow the concept of a god, not as described in any religious text, but as you yourself came to understand it through proper reasoning, even if it flies in the face of the religion you were taught to believe in?
Why would such a god care about evolution? He can do anything... he can set things up so that evolution happens... he can set things up so that no evolution is required.... he can do anything he wants... but why make fossils of creatures that seemingly cannot be found among the present-day fauna and flora?
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#33
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
(3rd January 2017, 19:12)MyelinSheath Wrote:
(3rd January 2017, 17:52)paulpablo Wrote: I'll give two predictions for the price of one.

I think my debate with mystical knight and your exchange with your brother are going to be quite similar.

I don't think sending him info will change things.

If he's a genious i can only assume he knows how to access information online possibly better than me and a lot of other people here who know about evolution.

But I'm curious, what did he say about dinosaurs, the HIV virus, the fact that if every extinct animal existed with every living species all at the same time it would be a bit crowded on earth. Were there any nuances to the conversation?

There was not really any nuance. He said he believed that "adaptation" had occurred, as if that carried any weight. He's simply ignorant on this topic. I'm done worrying about it. He's a moron in this domain.

That generally the way with creationists they will accept bits and pieces that they can't refute but then move the goalpost or will stop the evidence from leading to it's logical conclusion or they will create an" alternative explanation" for the evidence (crap that allows them to deny the evidences rational conclusion). It's really futile to debate a creationist and in the end you'll earn nothing but fried nerves and high blood pressure.
"And the midnight serpent flowed into the sky like a thousand rivers and all became blackness and calm "

unknown 
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#34
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
(3rd January 2017, 17:45)MyelinSheath Wrote: He's not going to believe a source coming from an atheist author who he perceives to be "liberal". Francis Collins is about the only scientist I know to point him to as an example of someone who is not an atheist, but who understands and accepts evolution as science understands it. His views on science are totally skewed and messed up. He's a business man and an engineer. He is very opinionated, very good at solving problems, very good at managing money, planning ahead, and coming up with innovative approaches to business and engineering, but he's ignorant as can be about science, and very attached to his own opinions. There simply is no wiggle room there. He thinks he's so smart, and right about everything.

Seriously, mate - trilobites in a pillowcase. Trust me on this one.

Boru
'There are people who long for immortality in the afterlife who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon.' - Isaac Asimov
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#35
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
Quote:He kept saying that there's no evidence for evolution.

So, as smart as you think he is when it comes to evolution he's an idiot.  Next.



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#36
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
He speaks to me like I don't know crap. Its one of those situations where he's the one with a higher level of education, I'm the less accomplished one, so it's talk down to me all the time.

I'm going to text him the links to Berkeley's evolution resource as well as talk origins.

Any good videos you might recommend? Not necessarily creation vs. evolution videos, but just videos giving the evidence for evolution?
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#37
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
Get him Richard Dawkins "The Greatest Show On Earth."  It's pretty hard reading for a bible-thumper but it is more compelling than some shitty bible verse.



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#38
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
(3rd January 2017, 21:44)Minimalist Wrote: Get him Richard Dawkins "The Greatest Show On Earth."  It's pretty hard reading for a bible-thumper but it is more compelling than some shitty bible verse.
He'll quickly dismiss Dawkins as an untrustworthy liberal atheist.
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#39
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
(3rd January 2017, 22:51)MyelinSheath Wrote:
(3rd January 2017, 21:44)Minimalist Wrote: Get him Richard Dawkins "The Greatest Show On Earth."  It's pretty hard reading for a bible-thumper but it is more compelling than some shitty bible verse.
He'll quickly dismiss Dawkins as an untrustworthy liberal atheist.

Well, he is a liberal atheist by USA standards - but perhaps this suggests another, less direct angle. I would suggest subtly challenging his bias. We all have them, to one degree or another - if he doesn't recognize that... Anyhow, explore his bias. Use the Socratic method. What makes a source credible? Ask him, don't argue with him. Let him talk. As he talks, you'll have more questions. Get to the root of the bias.

He's not likely to learn shit until he learns to read for comprehension outside his worldview.
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#40
RE: Heated debate on evolution with brother
(3rd January 2017, 04:38)MyelinSheath Wrote: I tried to offer him recommendations of books on evolution. He said it would depend on the author and who they were/what they stood for etc. as to whether or not he'd accept it. Erroneous reason, but I figured Francis Collins might be a good start. Any books by him you'd recommend?
I remember At The Water's Edge by Carl Zimmer and Endless Forms Most Beautiful by Sean Carroll to be thoroughly enjoyable.

If he's open to reading Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth is a classic.
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
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