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nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?
#71
RE: nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?
(October 11, 2010 at 4:19 am)solja247 Wrote:
Quote:Not quite right. There is something, and that something is everywhere. It's called quantum fluctuations.

To my knowledge you still need something for a quantum fluctuation to occur?
If you had absolutely nothing, you would still have absolutely nothing?

No need to get caught up in the pedantic. If quantum fluncturation came from nothing, then there is no god. If it came from something, we will find out what something is, and so on and so on. And those who cling to god either beats a sorry perpetual retreat, always fleeing with the receding unknown, grasping for the final refuge that science can't find out everything in a finite amount of time; or be reduced to each age's equivalent of flat earthers, denying based on stone age myth what has been verified by centuries of science.
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#72
RE: nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?
Carl Sagan explained it best in his Cosmos series:

Where did the universe come from?
It came from God.
Where did God come from?
He has always been here.
So why not save a step and say that the universe has always been here ( at least in the form of a singularity)?

Where did life come from? That's an easier question. Empirical evidence shows that life most likely came from a series of spontaneous chemical reactions that occurred over millions of years.

I will also add that whenever you claim God created something, you are using a greater mystery to explain a lesser mystery. You are basically saying, "Something I don't really understand caused something else I don't understand." The mystery doesn't go away; it is simply added to.
Blame Hitchens, Dawkins & Harris...
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#73
RE: nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?
(October 11, 2010 at 10:52 am)Chuck Wrote:
(October 11, 2010 at 4:19 am)solja247 Wrote:
Quote:Not quite right. There is something, and that something is everywhere. It's called quantum fluctuations.

To my knowledge you still need something for a quantum fluctuation to occur?
If you had absolutely nothing, you would still have absolutely nothing?

No need to get caught up in the pedantic. If quantum fluncturation came from nothing, then there is no god. If it came from something, we will find out what something is, and so on and so on. And those who cling to god either beats a sorry perpetual retreat, fleeing with the receding unknown, grasping for the final refuge that science can't find out everything in a finite amount of time; or reduce to each age's equivalent of flat earthers, denying based on stone age myth what has been verified by centuries of science.

I think that present science makes a stronger statement than that: if you add quantum fluctuations and everything else, the sum total energy of the universe is one big fat ZERO. The ordinary matter of which we are made of, a miserable 3%, is quite irrelevant and constitute pollution left over. We are that insignificant.

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#74
RE: nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?
(October 10, 2010 at 6:09 pm)solja247 Wrote:
Quote:Bollocks do they, thoughts are the fireing of neurons in the brain not some fanciful mysterious thing, you can see 'thoughts' with MRI scanners.

No. You can see what part of the brain is stimulated, thoughts and neurons are a little different...

The neural stimulation seen IS the thought not a reaction to the thought.

There is no need for a non-mechanistic interpretation as the mechanistic one works just fine.



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#75
RE: nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?
Quote:No need to get caught up in the pedantic. If quantum fluncturation came from nothing, then there is no god. If it came from something, we will find out what something is, and so on and so on. And those who cling to god either beats a sorry perpetual retreat, always fleeing with the receding unknown, grasping for the final refuge that science can't find out everything in a finite amount of time; or be reduced to each age's equivalent of flat earthers, denying based on stone age myth what has been verified by centuries of science.

Science closes many doors and opens some doors.
The Universe is much complicated and getting more complicated. Why is there no God if there is absolutely nothing?

Quote:So why not save a step and say that the universe has always been here ( at least in the form of a singularity)?

This idea is based on the assumption that an eternal universe is less complicated than God and explains things better, I dont think it does. The funny thing is, when we reduce things, things dont become simpler but even more complicated, trying to invoke Occam's razor is not practical, in my opinion...
Quote:Where did life come from? That's an easier question. Empirical evidence shows that life most likely came from a series of spontaneous chemical reactions that occurred over millions of years.

Where? Any peer reviewed journal of this empirical evidence will do...

Quote:The neural stimulation seen IS the thought not a reaction to the thought.

There is no need for a non-mechanistic interpretation as the mechanistic one works just fine.

Why cant brains be restarted like a heart if its that simplistic?
This forum is immaterial, it runs in a virtual reality, however, if I didnt have a computer and there was no internet cables and storage this forum and the internet would not exist. However, having an internet cable does not mean internet, you have to be connected to that vurtual reality, just like with the mind.
Ideas and emotions are immaterial...
Its ok to have doubt, just dont let that doubt become the answers.

You dont hate God, you hate the church game.

"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." Saint Augustine

Your mind works very simply: you are either trying to find out what are God's laws in order to follow them; or you are trying to outsmart Him. -Martin H. Fischer
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#76
RE: nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?
Quote:Why cant brains be restarted like a heart if its that simplistic?
This forum is immaterial, it runs in a virtual reality, however, if I didnt have a computer and there was no internet cables and storage this forum and the internet would not exist. However, having an internet cable does not mean internet, you have to be connected to that vurtual reality, just like with the mind.
Ideas and emotions are immaterial...

If oxygenated blood can be put into the brain in time it can prevent further damage.
But the brain is a delicate organ that begins to break down quickly with lack of oxygen

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_death.

But I'm glad you mentioned brain damage, a person with a damaged brain loses capacity and sometimes their personality changes. this is evidence against the personality as seperate from the body as does the ability of chemicals/drugs to alter perception/personality.
The mechanistic explaination is the one that fits the observable facts.

Quote:This idea is based on the assumption that an eternal universe is less complicated than God and explains things better, I dont think it does. The funny thing is, when we reduce things, things dont become simpler but even more complicated, trying to invoke Occam's razor is not practical, in my opinion...
Where did life come from? That's an easier question. Empirical evidence shows that life most likely came from a series of spontaneous chemical reactions that occurred over millions of years.
Quote:Where? Any peer reviewed journal of this empirical evidence will do...

Blimey a quick search on wkipedia has oodles of links.

Enjoy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis

Anyhoo back to the main thread topic.
The BBC had a good programme on what was before the big bang.

Funny no big man in a beard!

They are the biggest questions that science can possibly ask: where did everything in our universe come from? How did it all begin? For nearly a hundred years, we thought we had the answer: a big bang some 14 billion years ago.

But now some scientists believe that was not really the beginning. Our universe may have had a life before this violent moment of creation.

Horizon takes the ultimate trip into the unknown, to explore a dizzying world of cosmic bounces, rips and multiple universes, and finds out what happened before the big bang.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00vdkmj



You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.

Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.




 








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#77
RE: nothing, nothing, nothing...big bang?
(October 12, 2010 at 7:24 am)solja247 Wrote: This forum is immaterial, it runs in a virtual reality
No. This forum is very much material. It exists as a database / program running on a server in Paris. All the data on this server (that includes the database and program) exists as bits on the harddrive, which is very much material, and also in the RAM, which is also very much material. If you'd like to point out any part of the server that you think is immaterial, I'd gladly correct you.

Quote:However, having an internet cable does not mean internet, you have to be connected to that vurtual reality, just like with the mind.
The Internet is not a virtual reality. It is global setup of interconnected networks. They are all physical, and they all exist in our reality (not a virtual one).

Quote:Ideas and emotions are immaterial...
Any proof?
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