4 Arrested In FB Video Torturing Of A Mentally Challenged Man

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

I'm a bit puzzled. No one - here, in public, in the media, in law enforcement - seems to be saying that this is anything but a hate crime. There seems to be almost universal agreement that what was done to this kid was reprehensible in the extreme. The animals who committed this crime have been denied bond of any sort, and are facing charges that will likely end in lengthy prison terms for the four of them.

Where's the controversy?

Boru

[Brian37]

These sicko's motivations do not make us SJWs and that is a bullshit dodge to me for far too many, on the right but especially on the far right, to ignore there is still great inequity between how our economy and justice system affects blacks on average as compared to whites. The left and minorities would LOVE nothing more for this not to be an issue or for things like this to never happen. And nobody is making excuses for what THOSE INDIVIDUALS DID.

But there is still a very disgusting climate holding our nation hostage causing social anxiety between whites and blacks. The poor urban and the poor rural have the same economic problems, but only one sect of our society gets hurt worse on average. That SHOULD NOT be a race issue, and if it were treated as a math issue, the problem could be fixed.

You don't reduce crime ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, by fucking humans over on wallet issues. Humans when they have what they need and a society that cares for their mental health and have a family structure that can monitor them a daily basis are far less likely to do destructive things. I was a teen once, and I can tell you, while I never beat anyone up, I still did very stupid shit that if caught, could have gotten me in lots of trouble and I would have deserved it.

So to anyone in this thread who points to those sickos and says "SEE SEE SEE, they do it too" is completely missing our point and are using them as an excuse to ignore a long term bigger picture that is unfortunately deep rooted in our history. Nobody here is trying to make anyone feel guilty, but it does get old day after day and year after year watching people continue to bury their heads in the sand trying to pretend that a problem does not exist when it is clear one does.

[Cato]

Jesus fuck Brian. Your latest screed here perhaps would have a place if we're talking robbery, but is woefully misplaced considering what happened. Your routine has gone from dull to annoying to ridiculous; I believe you have jumped the shark.

[Brian37]

I'm a bit puzzled.  No one - here, in public, in the media, in law enforcement - seems to be saying that this is anything but a hate crime.  There seems to be almost universal agreement that what was done to this kid was reprehensible in the extreme.  The animals who committed this crime have been denied bond of any sort, and are facing charges that will likely end in lengthy prison terms for the four of them.  

Where's the controversy?  

Boru

Yep it was a hate crime, but which sect of our population in America do you think has more hate groups on average? Southern Poverty Law Center I do believe has a list of hundreds if not thousands. That list had a boom upon hummmmmm some guy from "Kenya" about to leave the White House. And the amount of assaults on LGBT and minorities has also gone up upon orange asshat's election. 

Yep, it was a hate crime, but that does not change when it comes to the climate of our entire nation and our deep seeded history is unfortunately still affecting us mentally. 

I honestly DO believe most when they say they are not racist, but if someone, not you, but if anyone is using that to ignore a very real problem, that does not help. The fact we elected Celebrity Despot who scapegoated everyone dog whistling to the poor persecuted white majority says to me we are backsliding not progressing. 

To anyone here reading this, I really think it would help humans in general to take the words "minority" and "majority" in terms of geography. Whites are a majority in America, but if you moved to China, you'd be a minority. If you moved to Kenya again, you'd be a minority. But even between those of very similar skin tones, if you are white, speak no German, move to Germany, you are not going to feel the same or fit in as well as those who were born and raised there.

A black person it would be the same. If they are born here in America, move to a predominately majority dark toned population in any given country in Africa, the also would not have the same experiences growing up as if they were born there as black Muslims or Black Christians born there.


Just like Kurdish Christians are abused in the East, and gays are feared and abused in the east. But here in America whites are NOT subject to the same volume of being feared nor are they affected as negatively on average. 

It is not as simple as far too many want to make it "I'm not racist" or "see see see, they do it too". "otherism" is an unfortunate reality worldwide in our species history, it is an unfortunate product of evolutionary survival in our competing over resources. But you cant simply point that out to most or simply say "That was then" or " get over it" or " "I am not like them". 

Knowing our species are not a separate species, and knowing our species is much older than our written religions and borders, knowing that we are all capable of the same acts of cruelty or compassion, really does help de-tangle our complex social ills.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Yep it was a hate crime, but which sect of our population in America do you think has more hate groups on average? Southern Poverty Law Center I do believe has a list of hundreds if not thousands. That list had a boom upon hummmmmm some guy from "Kenya" about to leave the White House. And the amount of assaults on LGBT and minorities has also gone up upon orange asshat's election.

It isn't a competition about who is more hateful.  If it is true that white USians have more hate groups than black USians (a point I don't necessarily dispute), that in no wise excuses or even mitigates what was done here.

Yep, it was a hate crime, but that does not change when it comes to the climate of our entire nation and our deep seeded [sic history is unfortunately still affecting us mentally.

Immaterial, except that you seem to be trying to say that this particular crime is somehow understandable given how black people are treated in the US (apos in advance if I mistook your meaning).  I disagree.

I honestly DO believe most when they say they are not racist, but if someone, not you, but if anyone is using that to ignore a very real problem, that does not help. The fact we elected Celebrity Despot who scapegoated everyone dog whistling to the poor persecuted white majority says to me we are backsliding not progressing.

I think you're trying to shoehorn the problem of white racism into a crime committed by black racists.  It won't wash.

To anyone here reading this, I really think it would help humans in general to take the words "minority" and "majority" in terms of geography. Whites are a majority in America, but if you moved to China, you'd be a minority. If you moved to Kenya again, you'd be a minority. But even between those of very similar skin tones, if you are white, speak no German, move to Germany, you are not going to feel the same or fit in as well as those who were born and raised there.

This is so utterly off-point I decline to address it in detail.

A black person it would be the same. If they are born here in America, move to a predominately majority dark toned population in any given country in Africa, the also would not have the same experiences growing up as if they were born there as black Muslims or Black Christians born there.

Same response.

Just like Kurdish Christians are abused in the East, and gays are feared and abused in the east.

Same response.

But here in America whites are NOT subject to the same volume of being feared nor are they affected as negatively on average.

I agree as far as it goes, but so what?  You're trying to take the specific crime of the kidnapping and torture of a white man by black people into a metaphor for all racially-based abuse everywhere in the world.  Doesn't work.  Also, try to remember that the victim in this crime is a mentally challenged white kid.  Rail all you like about the inequities in your society (again, I don't disagree that they exist), but try and stay focused on what happened here.

It is not as simple as far too many want to make it "I'm not racist" or "see see see, they do it too". "otherism" is an unfortunate reality worldwide in our species history, it is an unfortunate product of evolutionary survival in our competing over resources. But you cant simply point that out to most or simply say "That was then" or " get over it" or " "I am not like them".

Again, way, WAY off-point.

Knowing our species are not a separate species, and knowing our species is much older than our written religions and borders, knowing that we are all capable of the same acts of cruelty or compassion, really does help de-tangle our complex social ills.

Ditto, and a follow up to my earlier question:  Do you agree that what these four animals did to this kid is a hate crime that merits the severest possible punishment?  Try not to drag Kurds into it, and just answer the question.

Boru

[Brian37]

Jesus fuck Brian. Your latest screed here perhaps would have a place if we're talking robbery, but is woefully misplaced considering what happened. Your routine has gone from dull to annoying to ridiculous; I believe you have jumped the shark.

Huh? It was a hate crime means I jumped the shark? 

Whites "they do it too"

Sane, "Yes and?"


I think some still are missing my point, I have been pretty consistent every time issues like this come up in the past, not just here but all over the web.

Humans regardless of skin tone, want stability, we evolved to seek resources. Most don't like violence or crime. So nobody is our should be defending what they did. But you (not you, but humans in general) simply don't oversimplify that with finger pointing short term. I said in my prior post that I was a latchkey kid, had emotional problems, did destructive things just to fit in as a teen. I was lucky, I outgrew it. But those whom have it economically worse ANYWHERE in the world on average, are more likely to have more crime and less family stability. 

Whites "We want less of this"

Me being white too, " Me too"

But that does not change our society is still a majority light skin while the majority of those hurt worse by our economy  and justice system are minorities. If we don't face that reality, crime wont be reduced for either blacks or whites, urban or rural.

---

Let me try this out, see if this helps all who read it understand why, admittedly I do get upset, not because I am foaming at the mouth, but more along the lines that I know my fellow humans have it within themselves to do better.

So here goes.

We used to falsely believe widely in antiquity that the sun went around the earth, we know better now. We know also what conditions lead to a hurricane, knowing that does not mean we want a hurricane to affect us. But by knowing that, we can take precautions to reduce the impact of them. Understanding human psychology and the roots of social problems, can help prevent long term. Just like if I knew what I knew back then, what I know now, I would have been less likely, far less likely to have been as destructive as I was.

Those individuals certainly deserve to be punished, but just like me, conditions matter, and without addressing those conditions, you cannot reduce the rate of that happening. Same with ignoring climate change. The other problem with punishing them, while they certainly deserve it, simply putting them in a cell and doing nothing with them while in prison, especially if they are surrounded by other violent criminals, wont magically make them learn anything or come out better.

Our attitude to crime sucks in this country, it is simply babysitting, and is more about our selfish desire for revenge rather than working for future conditions that will reduce events like this.

What they did was vile and was a hate crime. Nobody should disagree with that, but there still is just enough of our population, holding our nation hostage, even the non bigoted whites whom ignore a problem allowing those conditions to exist. Just like took forever for big oil to take led out of gas. Understanding conditions is not making excuses. Just like knowing what conditions lead to a hurricane can help reduce the impact.

[brewer]

You forgot to throw in the NRA.

[Brian37]

Another point I'd like to make is that could have been me as a kid and teen. I see myself in what they did, the sheep mentality wanting cheap attention just to fit in. It could have been far worse for me, if I had fallen in with physically violent teens, or violent racists. There is no excuse for what they did. But as I said, I see myself in them. Teen angst and aggression is the same be it property destruction or physical violence. It still amounts to peer pressure, lack of family oversight and looking for belonging. It is the same social instability that leads white racists to join gangs, same lack of self awareness by humans that lead them to shack themselves up with violent religious sects. 

All social structures from family to community to entire ideologies can become quite destructive and aggressive when there is no awareness of conditions or understanding of those conditions.

[brewer]

Another point I'd like to make is that could have been me as a kid and teen. I see myself in what they did, the sheep mentality wanting cheap attention just to fit in. It could have been far worse for me, if I had fallen in with physically violent teens, or violent racists. There is no excuse for what they did. But as I said, I see myself in them. Teen angst and aggression is the same be it property destruction or physical violence. It still amounts to peer pressure, lack of family oversight and looking for belonging. It is the same social instability that leads white racists to join gangs, same lack of self awareness by humans that lead them to shack themselves up with violent religious sects. 

All social structures from family to community to entire ideologies can become quite destructive and aggressive when there is no awareness of conditions or understanding of those conditions.

Sounds like excuses to me.

[Brian37]

You forgot to throw in the NRA.

You brought it up not me, but since you did, don't bitch.

You don't want to view the NRA as a gang, or claim it should not be viewed as a gang? 

The NRA is not what it started out as. If it were still what it started out as, I would have no problem with it. But just like a street gang, and just like a violent religious sect, it is the same "all or nothing" lack of pragmatism, group mentality, and gets blindly defended by it's supporters in much the same way lacking any self introspection. The disgusting irony is that the NRA is a minority of our entire population, and also a minority of both conservative and liberal gun owners. Kinda like Saddam was a minority but ruled over a majority.

The mentality of the CURRENT NRA leadership is toxic, and right now it is NOT a rights org, but is a utopia peddler delusional opportunistic profit lobby gang that markets fear to protect their industry sponsors. Really to me CURRENTLY is acting more like a religion in it's marketing, than a law advocate. 

But, just like economics, if it worked the way defenders claimed, there would be no problems and nobody would be bitching. Sorry, but the NRA does not get to as a minority dictate our laws, diplomacy in lawmaking isn't ever "all or nothing". 

Now, again, don't complain, you brought it up.