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Current time: 16th January 2017, 20:44

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Dylann Roof sentenced to death
#21
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
(11th January 2017, 01:06)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm confussed.

It seems most of you will claim to be vehemently against the dp, but when presented with a specific case, take on an attitude of "wellll, if it's HIM..."  

Stick to your guns, folks. This is why the question of right/wrong is based on objective principles, not emotion.

Subjective principles will suffice.
"Churches are becoming political organizations... It probably will not be long until the churches will divide as sharply upon political, as upon theological questions; and when that day comes, if there are not liberals enough to hold the balance of power, this Government will be destroyed. The liberty of man is not safe in the hands of any church." R. Ingersoll







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#22
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
(11th January 2017, 01:06)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm confussed.

It seems most of you will claim to be vehemently against the dp, but when presented with a specific case, take on an attitude of "wellll, if it's HIM..."  

Stick to your guns, folks. This is why the question of right/wrong is based on objective principles, not emotion.

I'm about as confused as you are. When I decided I was against the death penalty, I considered even worse cases than this one. I'm still against it here.
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#23
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
I am still against the death penalty, not because of that fucking pile of shit. But because not all those sentenced to death are high profile, and minorities as with most crimes, even not involving murder, are hurt worse by the justice system and do not have ON AVERAGE the same ability to get a decent defense lawyer.

I have met and talked to people who had their cases overturned or commuted to life because of questionable investigations. Just on a tax payer issue alone it is insane to keep it. It costs more to prosecute a death penalty case than a conviction with life with no parole with all the appeals involved.

And when it comes to the poor end, rural or urban, it is important to remember that the state has a far bigger budget to persecute anyone of any crime than they do a budget for a defense lawyer.

I am not going to lose sleep over Roof, but our system isn't just there only for high profile cases. And even outside murder, if anyone thinks it is impossible for the innocent to falsely get accused or wrongly convicted, it happens alot more than people think.
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#24
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
The guy is an unrepentant piece of scum, but I'm still against the death penalty. We (should) make laws based on what's effective, humane, and reasonable, not based on feelings of vengeance or personal emotion, which seem to be the only arguments I hear in favor of the death penalty.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
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#25
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
Doesn't the bible say: an eye for an eye?
Sorry, I forgot, I'm not supposed to take it literally, even though God fucking wrote it! hehe
Quote:AtlasS33 wrote:
"When it comes to the deiety I worship, he sent a book, it contained a message. I took that message, tested it, then I realized he is God : it didn't break against reality."

Religion: making the uncomfortable comfortable for thousands of years.
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#26
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
(11th January 2017, 09:24)FatAndFaithless Wrote: The guy is an unrepentant piece of scum, but I'm still against the death penalty.  We (should) make laws based on what's effective, humane, and reasonable, not based on feelings of vengeance or personal emotion, which seem to be the only arguments I hear in favor of the death penalty.

BINGO, 

The rise of fear and revenge has a long hand going back. I think lots of that came about because of high profile serial killer cases like Bundy and the murder of Adam Walsh back in the early 80s. Then you had the rise of "America's Most Wanted" and shows like Nancy Grace. 

It isn't that we should not have a free press reporting crime, of course we should. But the sensationalism bombarding the public poisons attitudes of objectivity long term. It can cause law to be over zealous as well as potential jurors going in wanting revenge instead of the right thing, which is merely fact finding. 

Even one of the family members said about the Roof case, "It is a hollow victory and won't bring my loved one back".

We have too much poverty, both rural and urban, lack of livable wages, too many non violent people who end up going into meat grinder prisons only to come out worse than they came in. Too much demonizing of those with mental health issues, and yes I will say it again, a flooded gun market that does not stop mostly suicides in the home and mostly domestic violence in the home, and accidental deaths in the home.

But, as long as we allow this GOP gerrymandered map, and allow that party to hold our nation hostage, we will keep having events like this, be they race based shootings, mentally ill, terrorist or work place grudge.
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#27
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
(11th January 2017, 08:38)chimp3 Wrote:
(11th January 2017, 01:06)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I'm confussed.

It seems most of you will claim to be vehemently against the dp, but when presented with a specific case, take on an attitude of "wellll, if it's HIM..."  

Stick to your guns, folks. This is why the question of right/wrong is based on objective principles, not emotion.

Subjective principles will suffice.

what I meant by that is principles you hold which won't change depending on how you feel. in other words, consistency.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#28
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
I think one of the main arguments against the death penalty is, sometimes innocent people get killed. Well, I'm pretty sure Dylan ain't innocent, so killing him isn't murder.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."

10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason...
http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/

A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh.
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html

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#29
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
(11th January 2017, 09:33)ignoramus Wrote: Doesn't the bible say: an eye for an eye?
Sorry, I forgot, I'm not supposed to take it literally, even though God fucking wrote it!  hehe

Jesus specifically rebuked that Old Testament law:  "You have heard that it was said, 'and eye for an eye', but I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." Unfortunately we still have many Christians who are for the DP. There is 0 excuse for that, considering Jesus specifically opposed it on multiple occasions.

(11th January 2017, 12:41)Chad32 Wrote: I think one of the main arguments against the death penalty is, sometimes innocent people get killed. Well, I'm pretty sure Dylan ain't innocent, so killing him isn't murder.

Not for me. Even if 100% of death row inmates were guilty of heinous crimes, I'd still be against it. Mainly because there is 0 point to it in the modern day where we can keep them locked up and away from society.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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#30
RE: Dylann Roof sentenced to death
(11th January 2017, 12:41)Chad32 Wrote: I think one of the main arguments against the death penalty is, sometimes innocent people get killed. Well, I'm pretty sure Dylan ain't innocent, so killing him isn't murder.

Yes, but giving him the death penalty means keeping it legal, which does endanger innocent people.

And don't kid yourself. It is murder. It's just state-sanctioned murder.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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