Tooth Fairy Bullshit

[The Grand Nudger]

Amusingly, parents specifically indoctrinating their children wasn't the origin of the tooth fairy story, as far as anyone can tell.  There's no group of human beings on earth who haven't come up with her analog, and even though her current incarnation is an american original, she's as ancient as any god. We don't have to teach our kids to believe in tooth fairies, they'll come to such beliefs on their own, and always have. Our stories attach themselves to these older traditions, these older habits....and we cling to the stories long after the impetus for their being told is lost to our memories.

[robvalue]

Hmm interesting. It's okay to conclude there's something seriously wrong with an adult who believes in the tooth fairy, but it's not okay to compare two beliefs without saying there anything wrong with anyone?

I don't judge a whole person by each individual belief they hold. If someone holds what I consider to be an incorrect opinion, I don't need to make judgements about them as a whole. If they have unpopular or whacky beliefs, I'll still listen to whatever else they have to say and judge it on its own merit. They may still have perfectly valid things to say. I myself may hold irrational beliefs, either objectively or in the eyes of someone I'm talking to, and I wouldn't want them to judge my whole character based on that.

It's my opinion that any offense from this comparison, which is merely meant to show a theist a different point of view, a sceptical evidence based point of view, comes from it hitting a bit too close to home. If it was so absurd, it would be laughed off.

If you can't separate yourself from your beliefs, that is your problem. If you don't want to hear criticism of your beliefs, don't discuss them. If you want your beliefs to be respected, get respectable beliefs.

[GUBU]

There is a big difference between disagreeing and disrespect. Saying that Bonhoeffer's faith was in error is fine. Saying his faith was ridiculous (or delusional) is disrespectful.

Why are your beliefs deserving of respect and mine are not?  It is my belief that your faith is ridiculous.  That is my actual, sincerely held belief.  I believe "douchebag" is the word you used to describe someone who holds that belief.

Because unlike christianity and the other religions your sincerely held belief has no mechanism for separating gullible people from their money.

[robvalue]

PS: The argument that a belief is respectable if a lot of people hold it, is silly.

I would maintain my beliefs even if no one else believed them. And I would be confident I could demonstrate to people why I believe what I do. I could provide evidence.

If you were suddenly the only person who believed in all the Christian business, do you think you could do the same? Would you even keep the beliefs? Or would you now put yourself in the same category as an adult who believed in the tooth fairy? What's the difference?

[GUBU]

1. It should make a difference to you though. Because as I explained earlier, culture matters. A person who believes something that is completely out there in relation to their culture/society (like legitimate belief in the Tooth Fairy), is probably not a very normal person. That's not me being biased bc I personally don't believe in the tooth fairy, that's just being objective and honest.

Well it doesn't make a difference to me and I don't see that changing. Shouldn't that make you feel better about my comparison of your beliefs to the others? If I started disrespecting one set of believers, I would drag the others down with them. I refuse to do that. I think there also might still be some bias on your end simply because you've been raised with a socially acceptable belief.

2. It really just depends on what "religion" it is. If the religion was based even loosely on something that our culture takes seriously, like perhaps a denomination of an already existing religion/ideology, then I'd probably not think you were a nutter. If this religion was you saying the Easter Bunny is God, for example, then I'd think there's probably something not quite right with your mental state. However, if this belief in an Easter Bunny God becoming a thing in our society, then I wouldn't think that subsequent followers of that religion are nuts. Because that is what they are being taught, and that is what our society believed in. I'd still think you were nuts, since you're the one who pulled that literally out of crazy land in the first place, but I wouldn't think subsequent followers were nuts if it became a thing in our society.

So society taking something seriously is what matters to you? I can't identify with that. I don't care what society does or does not accept. It's not a popularity contest to me. I care about what's true and I see neither belief as true. I am going to see equal fault in someone's beliefs so long as I see either as untrue. I also don't think someone having false beliefs necessarily comes from insanity, either, no matter what the belief is. Yes, insanity can lead to any belief, but the same belief can appear in a perfectly sane person.

I'm off the opinion that the butthurt is because the religious don't automatically get privilege any nore. You can see it in the op and in responses that CL has being giving out recently accusing posters who politely ask hard questions of theists of being insulting and disrespectful. They are miffed because the assumption that their unevidenced belief in a deity is no longer the path one has to profess to be a full member of society, they are miffed because others with different, or even no, beliefs are now afforded the same legal protections and opportunities they enjoy.

Loss of privilege is a hard thing to take for some people, especially when it's unearned.

---

Moving beyond this whole "is believing in god like believing in the tooth fairy" shtick, I can see where Chad and CL are coming from in their frustration with many atheists on this forum.

I don't. Chad's frustrations come simply because his rcc mandated beliefs don't get a free pass. He gets snippy at people when they point out how and why the Quinque Viae are not proof of god's exisence, and he gets downright offensive when he is asked for any evidence to suppoert his asdertions.

And one last thing, if the likes of Wooters and Catholic Lady and the other theists on this forum (with very few exceptions, Mystic Knight is about the only theist who doesn't consciously do so in my experience) weren't so quick to ridicule those who don't hold to the same beliefs as they do, most of us here (including me) wouldn't ridicule them back. It goes back to my previous post about loss of privilege, the christians are no longer secure in their position on top of the pile (in most western countries they're no longer there) and are getting increasingly belligerent as a result.

[Joods]

Sorry but I don't see CL ridiculing anyone on here for that. Other theists, perhaps. But not CL. She doesn't need to stoop to that level of low.

[ApeNotKillApe]

Mock my beliefs all you want, so long as you speak the truth.

[robvalue]

You can mock my beliefs too, for free. I don't even care if you're just talking rubbish. Go for it.

[ApeNotKillApe]

I'm only really inclined to care if you aren't talking rubbish.

[robvalue]

Oh sure. I won't reply to nonsense, but neither will I be bothered by it or call people douche bags for mocking my beliefs.