"Declared Clinically Dead"

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Additionally, I've never got a good explanation of why an NDE is so often touted as proof of an afterlife.  It's called a near death experience for a reason:  you aren't dead.  If you haven't died, how the hell can you claim to have seen the afterlife?

If people actually died during these episodes, they'd be called 'death experiences'.  Funny how nobody who has actually had a death experience has come back to tell us what it's like.  Know why?  BECAUSE THEY'RE FUCKING DEAD!!

Boru

Lol this reminded me of George Carlin so much.

Specifically this quote:

[...]you know where the sanctity of life came from? We made it up! You know why? Cause we're alive! Self-interest. Living people have a strong interest in promoting the idea that somehow life is sacred. You don't see Abbott and Costello running around, talking about this shit, do you? We're not hearing a whole lot from Mussolini on the subject. What's the latest from JFK? Not a god damned thing, cause JFK, Mussolini, and Abbott and Costello are fucking dead. They're fucking dead, and dead people give less than a shit about the sanctity of life. Only living people care about it, so the whole thing grows out of a completely biased point of view. It's a self-serving, man-made bullshit story. It's one of these things we tell ourselves so we'll feel noble. Life is sacred, makes you feel noble.

---

No, it's an event.

Boru

I'd say it's a state. A permanent state of not being alive anymore.

'Death' is the event. 'Dead' is the state.

Boru

[Angrboda]

This phrase always amuses me when reading accounts of "near death experiences". The subject is always declared clinically dead and yet is receiving resuscitation. That is not what happens. During a CPR/ defibrillation procedure a series of rescue breathing/ chest compressions , checking the heart rhythm to see if defibrillation is needed, and drugs are given.  This can go on for quite awhile. Then when the Doctor says "Stop!" that's it. The time is noted and now the patient is declared dead. The death certificate for example will note "Time of death 14:22" . At no time before the resuscitation is the person declared dead. If you don't believe it , get a degree in medicine or nursing and see for yourself.

You're clearly wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_syndrome

Lazarus syndrome, also known as autoresuscitation after failed cardiopulmonary resuscitation,is the spontaneous return of circulation after failed attempts at resuscitation. Its occurrence has been noted in medical literature at least 38 times since 1982.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dead-ohio-ma...g-doctors/

A man who was declared dead when his heart stopped beating for 45 minutes suddenly revived, said his stunned doctors, who can't find an explanation. The man, though, credits his faith.

Your response doesn't even address what he said. He said that a person isn't declared clinically dead until after resuscitation efforts have been stopped. Lazarus syndrome has absolutely nothing to do with what he said. "At no time before the resuscitation is the person declared dead." What on earth does what you posted have to do with what he said?

[Edwardo Piet]

Isn't 'Death' both an event and a state?

Death=both the event of dying and the state of deadness?

Also ain't it also some dude with a scythe as well?

---

Aha! I knew it:

the action or fact of dying or being killed; the end of the life of a person or organism.
"he had been depressed since the death of his father"

Indeed an event, but also indeed a state:

the state of being dead.
"even in death, she was beautiful"

[Huggy Bear]

You're clearly wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_syndrome

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dead-ohio-ma...g-doctors/

Your response doesn't even address what he said.  He said that a person isn't declared clinically dead until after resuscitation efforts have been stopped.  Lazarus syndrome has absolutely nothing to do with what he said.  "At no time before the resuscitation is the person declared dead."  What on earth does what you posted have to do with what he said?

*emphasis mine*

Exactly!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121643/

The Lazarus phenomenon is described as delayed return of spontaneous circulation (ROSC) after cessation of cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR).

It states clearly that the phenomena occurs AFTER the CESSATION of CPR, which contradicts the OP's claim of NDE subjects:

The subject is always declared clinically dead and yet is receiving resuscitation.

*emphasis mine*

This is clearly NOT ALWAYS the case.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Isn't 'Death' both an event and a state?

Death=both the event of dying and the state of deadness?

Also ain't it also some dude with a scythe as well?

---

Aha! I knew it:

the action or fact of dying or being killed; the end of the life of a person or organism.
"he had been depressed since the death of his father"

Indeed an event, but also indeed a state:

the state of being dead.
"even in death, she was beautiful"

And yet we don't say, 'She's been death for 20 years' or 'Time of dead, 12:44 PM'.

Boru

[Angrboda]

Your response doesn't even address what he said.  He said that a person isn't declared clinically dead until after resuscitation efforts have been stopped.  Lazarus syndrome has absolutely nothing to do with what he said.  "At no time before the resuscitation is the person declared dead."  What on earth does what you posted have to do with what he said?

*emphasis mine*

Exactly!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121643/

The Lazarus phenomenon is described as delayed return of spontaneous circulation (ROSC) after cessation of cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR).

It states clearly that the phenomena occurs AFTER the CESSATION of CPR, which contradicts the OP's claim of NDE subjects:

The subject is always declared clinically dead and yet is receiving resuscitation.

*emphasis mine*

This is clearly NOT ALWAYS the case.

You're misreading what he's saying.

This phrase always amuses me when reading accounts of "near death experiences". The subject is always declared clinically dead and yet is receiving resuscitation. That is not what happens. During a CPR/ defibrillation procedure a series of rescue breathing/ chest compressions , checking the heart rhythm to see if defibrillation is needed, and drugs are given. This can go on for quite awhile. Then when the Doctor says "Stop!" that's it. The time is noted and now the patient is declared dead. The death certificate for example will note "Time of death 14:22" . At no time before the resuscitation is the person declared dead. If you don't believe it , get a degree in medicine or nursing and see for yourself.

Clearly when he says "always" he is using hyperbole, not a literal assertion that every NDE account contains those elements. Simply that a lot of them do. He's describing his impression of the NDE accounts that he has read. Besides, how would you know what is in the accounts of NDEs which he's read? No, you're guilty of giving an uncharitable reading of chimp3 just so that you can say, "Nuh Uh." What you have posted doesn't address the substance of what he wrote.

[The Valkyrie]

Your response doesn't even address what he said.  He said that a person isn't declared clinically dead until after resuscitation efforts have been stopped.  Lazarus syndrome has absolutely nothing to do with what he said.  "At no time before the resuscitation is the person declared dead."  What on earth does what you posted have to do with what he said?

*emphasis mine*

Exactly!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2121643/

The Lazarus phenomenon is described as delayed return of spontaneous circulation (ROSC) after cessation of cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR).

It states clearly that the phenomena occurs AFTER the CESSATION of CPR, which contradicts the OP's claim of NDE subjects:

The subject is always declared clinically dead and yet is receiving resuscitation.

*emphasis mine*

This is clearly NOT ALWAYS the case.

Extremely rare and certainly not enough cases to know the exact information for such cases.

You'll also hear stories of people waking up in the morgue or, worse, in a funeral home.

The point being, are these genetic anomalies, medical errors, miracles (probably not), or something as yet unidentified?

Until we know the cause, it's hard to comment.

[chimp3]

This phrase always amuses me when reading accounts of "near death experiences". The subject is always declared clinically dead and yet is receiving resuscitation. That is not what happens. During a CPR/ defibrillation procedure a series of rescue breathing/ chest compressions , checking the heart rhythm to see if defibrillation is needed, and drugs are given.  This can go on for quite awhile. Then when the Doctor says "Stop!" that's it. The time is noted and now the patient is declared dead. The death certificate for example will note "Time of death 14:22" . At no time before the resuscitation is the person declared dead. If you don't believe it , get a degree in medicine or nursing and see for yourself.

You're clearly wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_syndrome

Lazarus syndrome, also known as autoresuscitation after failed cardiopulmonary resuscitation,is the spontaneous return of circulation after failed attempts at resuscitation. Its occurrence has been noted in medical literature at least 38 times since 1982.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/dead-ohio-ma...g-doctors/

A man who was declared dead when his heart stopped beating for 45 minutes suddenly revived, said his stunned doctors, who can't find an explanation. The man, though, credits his faith.

I am clearly wrong about what?

[Edwardo Piet]

I've never even been declared clinically alive

I'm a zombie

[The Valkyrie]

I've  never even been declared clinically alive

I'm a zombie

Prick your finger (NO!  NOT that way!!)

If the blood runs freely and red, you're alive.

You're welcome.

My fee is $US250.