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RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 26, 2017 at 10:00 pm
(January 26, 2017 at 4:08 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: Yeah I guess I would say people it's about needing to think and feel a certain way that is meaningful for them. I hadn't really thought about that outside of the terms of religion because to me, right now, morality doesn't make sense outside of religion. It's just my idea against your idea and whoever's strongest wins.
I don't know how to answer the second question.
bold mine
Who gets to determine who is the strongest? And strongest based on what?
Once the determination has been made, how is it applied?
I don't have an anger problem, I have an idiot problem.
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RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 26, 2017 at 10:28 pm
(This post was last modified: January 26, 2017 at 10:45 pm by phoenix31.)
(January 26, 2017 at 9:48 pm)Kernel Sohcahtoa Wrote: phoenix31 Wrote:Yeah I guess I would say people it's about needing to think and feel a certain way that is meaningful for them. I hadn't really thought about that outside of the terms of religion because to me, right now, morality doesn't make sense outside of religion. It's just my idea against your idea and whoever's strongest wins.
Thank you for your response, phoenix31. IMO, my second question was answered in your post:
phoenix31 Wrote:It's just my idea against your idea and whoever's strongest wins.
If religion is ultimately a way of thinking and making sense of reality, then why would it be exempt from the "it's just my idea against your idea and whoever is strongest wins"? This is what I was focusing on in my second question. I appreciate and respect that religious morality can feel very real and objective to its practitioners, but does that mean that it is the only way for a moral system to make sense and be meaningful? What about people from the secular population, especially members from this website, who are peaceful, constructive, and passionate about their secular morals and the meaning and fulfillment that comes from them? Why would religious morality be any more objective or meaningful than secular morality or any other kind of morality?
Thank you for your time and attention. Live long and prosper.
This makes a lot of sense. Both your posts made me think. Thanks for taking the time.
(January 26, 2017 at 10:00 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: (January 26, 2017 at 4:08 pm)phoenix31 Wrote: Yeah I guess I would say people it's about needing to think and feel a certain way that is meaningful for them. I hadn't really thought about that outside of the terms of religion because to me, right now, morality doesn't make sense outside of religion. It's just my idea against your idea and whoever's strongest wins.
I don't know how to answer the second question.
bold mine
Who gets to determine who is the strongest? And strongest based on what?
Once the determination has been made, how is it applied?
Well I don't know, that's what's scary. I guess whoever's society has the most money or the most advanced science or whatever, I don't even know. Why'd we win over Hitler? Why was his system of beliefs not moral and ours was? I don't know.
*Edit* I forgot to answer your last question. I don't know how it's applied. I mean our laws and everything are based on democratic processes, in the USA. So I guess the majority rules? I don't know. There's culture clashes and people decide for themselves what they think. Or they're brainwashed, that too.
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RE: Does the World Need Religion?
January 30, 2017 at 4:40 pm
It's possible religion helps keep people in line morally, but it also keeps "morals" that don't make sense from dying out. Like denying gays the right to marry, or indirectly, preventing trans people from using the bathroom of the gender they identify with. Also you have rules that almost everybody breaks like the prohibition against premarital sex. Statistically well over %90 of Americans were not married when they had their first sexual experience. Yet you have the religious right condemning people for doing the exact same thing they did! Because a book written by people from another country and culture 2,000 years ago says its wrong.
More on that, we're the only modern nation that teaches abstinence only sex education and we have far more teen pregnancies than all those other countries. Reason would tell us to try a different approach as what we've been trying hasn't worked. But Religion often doesn't allow for reason.
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RE: Does the World Need Religion?
February 7, 2017 at 3:34 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2017 at 3:35 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
The people who wrote that nonsense got their freak on as well...it was the authors' knowledge of that basic fact that lead to their resoundingly insecure proclamations against it. They knew that people were out there having sex, maybe even good sex, maybe even good sex with -their- wives. They knew this, ofc, because they were fucking their neighbors wife as well.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Does the World Need Religion?
February 7, 2017 at 3:46 pm
The world needs religion as much as it needs malaria, which is to say, not a lot.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman
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RE: Does the World Need Religion?
February 7, 2017 at 4:12 pm
(This post was last modified: February 7, 2017 at 4:12 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(January 26, 2017 at 10:28 pm)phoenix31 Wrote:
(January 26, 2017 at 10:00 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: Who gets to determine who is the strongest? And strongest based on what?
Well I don't know, that's what's scary.
A secular moral system might refer you both to a concept called categorical imperatives to answer that question....though secular moral philosophy isn't limited to categorical imperatives, nor are categorical imperatives limited to secular moralities.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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