Was Hitler objectively bad?

[tackattack]

I think what skpper and zen are trying to get across to you soulja is that it's not an arguement against the existence of God (in regards specifically related to hell). Hell arguements stem from the Problem of Evil (POE) and they are an arguement against the omnimax attributes of the Christian God , because eternal torture and omnibenevolent are contradictory. Thus it's n arguement against the Christian definition of what God is not whether God exists. To get to a "Does God exist" question you must first define what God you're talking about and define it's qualities.
I do agree with soulja to a degree in that a lot of atheists can't really unbiasly evaluate whether a Christian God exists without resolving the POE, which a lot of them (either through disinclination or lack of viable reference) haven't.

[Zen Badger]

The concept of hell is just one of the many contradictions that constitute the absurdity that is religion.

It is not an objection to god, the absence of evidence is the main one.

It is more a case of "How can you believe in so many obviously conflicting components without evidence?"

P.s the bible does not count as evidence of anything except itself.

[Skipper]

It's not an argument against God from an Atheists point of view because it does not come into the equation. The idea of a heaven and hell aren't real as far as I'm concerned. And I don't think any Atheist would say they did exist as part of the reason why they don't believe in god.It often comes up as a separate point from Atheists as to why they also think religions are stupid, but it's not the reason they don't believe in the god in the first place. It seems to be only religious folk who us things god and their books say exist as part of their argument for the existence of the god. Ridiculous.

I think this thread explains what Im saying:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-4617-page-1.html

Note: Dave4shumps 'converted' for some silly reason because his church wasnt that intelligent. I think when one says there is no God or there is, they have commited objectivity suicide and nothing will convince them either way...

In that example he's a Christian, that by the sounds of it has had the idea of heaven and hell drilled into him, and is still scared despite coming to the quite rational conclusion that the idea is stupid. Thats the power of religion for you.

I'll say it again for the last time...Atheism is lack of belief in a God. For most rational people not liking something does not make that thing any more or less real. I don't like the idea of hell, but if I was provided with the proof of it's existence I would have no choice but to belive. Religious folk on the other hand do use their not liking the idea of something as an argument for their stand point...e.g. "DO YOU LIKE THE IDEA OF THERE BEING NOTHING AFTER DEATH!?" or "DO YOU LIKE THE IDEA OF BEING A MONKEY!??!?! I SURE DONT!!!!"

[Zen Badger]

BTW if it weren't for Hitler, there wouldn't have been any Messerschmidt Me-109s and as a consequence I'd be minus a avatar pic

[Entropist]

BTW if it weren't for Hitler, there wouldn't have been any Messerschmidt Me-109s and as a consequence I'd be minus a avatar pic

You NAZI!!!!!1!!

[Zen Badger]

BTW if it weren't for Hitler, there wouldn't have been any Messerschmidt Me-109s and as a consequence I'd be minus a avatar pic

You NAZI!!!!!1!!

You have to admit that the Luftwaffe did have the best toys.

[krazedkat]

In my mind, we was bad, however in the minds of others he wasn't. You see, I believe that all morality is subjective, derived from our own thoughts.

[lrh9]

The problem with atheism is that everything is permissible.

It is as equally a problem with many types of theism. Free will is particularly nasty. According to theists who believe in free will, every person has the free will to behave good or evil. According to them a person can choose to be a murderer, thief, rapist, child molester, etc. and their deity will do nothing to stop that person. Their deity will do nothing to stop that person, even if other people get hurt in the process. So that cosmic douchebag mcfaggot you theists worship permits everything 'atheism' permits.

In reality the only thing that limits what can happen is nature. Every other restriction is artificial. Atheists may believe that nature allows some pretty nasty stuff to happen, but we certainly don't support everything that happens.

Good day.

I SAID GOOD DAY!

[downbeatplumb]

[quote='lrh9' pid='94789' dateline='1284888756']

The problem with atheism is that everything is permissible.

And with theism everything is excusable.
The yorkshire ripper was "told" to kill by the voice of god in his head.
God "told" bush it was right to invade Iraq.

In the bible you can find examples of rape, incest and mass murder perpetrated by the "good guys".

'with out religion good people would do good things and bad people would do bad things, for a good person to do bad things takes religion' to poorly quote someone who escapes me right now.

[Cego_Colher]

to continue with what Irh9 and Downbeat said certain religious people have believed or believe that as long as you believe in X or confess your sins you don't get punished. (of course some also don't believe that, that you have to be serious, that beyond a certain point you can't be forgiven or whatever)
there is apparently a saying in the US Army that it's easier to ask for forgiveness then permission. Then there is also the saying that there are no atheists in foxholes.


I think Hitler was a terrible man, but how am I supposed to be objective-- even a little with something like that?