My idea for a progressive 3rd party

[Won2blv]

For example, on gun rights. The platform could simply be, "We are committed to protecting the rights of all gun owners by limiting the unlawful use of weapons that only creates disorder and misinformation about gun owners"

That would be marked improvement over each respective sides current gun narrative.

 As to what you're missing...well, probably, the people who like the platform as it is, people who agree, for example - with the current gun narrative.

It doesn't matter that some people would like the current gun narrative. The new party would not be catering to extremes. It would be catering to common sense. So if someone read the platform and decided it still sounded like and infringement of their rights, well, that person probably has been building an arsenal of weapons since the 70's. Oh, and they're probably a libertarian

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If I am understanding correctly, you are just talking about relabeling, the same thing. Personally, my thoughts are for a real third party, which is more middle of the road.

If there is a 3rd party it will be a split off from one of the current parties. Either a more right wing GOP or a more left wing Dem. I look at the GOP and think that they're wrong for the right reasons and the Dems are right for the wrong reasons. There is this cheesesteak place that I go to in Salt Lake and it had this sign the other day



It perfectly illustrates how people feel. But again, if there were a 3rd party that would catch any steam, it would just be a more extreme version of the current parties. So my solution is not just rebranding, its like if McDonalds could dissolve itself but then rebrand as Five Guys. Could you imagine if you could have Five Guys quality food for the same price and the same accessibility as McDonalds?

I am not proposing a bait and switch, I am proposing just a new political product that is simpler and easier to grasp.

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A middle of the road party between republicans and democrats would just be a third right wing party.  If what you mean is an -actual- politically centrist party, it would be to the left of both the republican and democratic parties.  I too, would support that.  Wouldn't be as left leaning as me, but at least it would be able to blend what the left and the right conceivably -could- get right.

Exactly, people don't understand how a good mixture of capitalism and socialism is the best system. There is an incentive for growth and ingenuity, but also a limit to profit over basic humanitarianism. This is the best time for this party to be rolled out because people are so frazzled. Its like we have been listening to a debate between bill maher and bill O'reilly for years, and the new party would be like watching Barney instead.

[The Grand Nudger]

It doesn't matter that some people would like the current gun narrative. The new party would not be catering to extremes. It would be catering to common sense. So if someone read the platform and decided it still sounded like and infringement of their rights, well, that person probably has been building an arsenal of weapons since the 70's. Oh, and they're probably a libertarian

I think it would matter..and I wasn't referring to those who marched to the NRA's tune...I was referring to the majority of -dems- who think that the current party platform on gun control is either good, or should be even more restrictive. This third party would fail to draw dems who wanted"stricter gun control" or...the removal of private ownership on grounds of that particular issue.  It also wouldn't draw repubs, since that exactly what -moderate- republicans already propose...and the nutter want crazy people to be able to purchase guns.  

I'm not criticizing the proposed platform, I'm commenting on the ability of any platform to draw votes on the grounds of that particular issue as stated.  

Exactly, people don't understand how a good mixture of capitalism and socialism is the best system. There is an incentive for growth and ingenuity, but also a limit to profit over basic humanitarianism. This is the best time for this party to be rolled out because people are so frazzled. Its like we have been listening to a debate between bill maher and bill O'reilly for years, and the new party would be like watching Barney instead.

If Bill Maher is the standard for an extreme leftist position.....then there is no extreme left, left...in america.  Maher is a progressive libertarian.

[Mister Agenda]

Maybe if it was framed as a platform change/improvement/update, it might get some traction.

[Won2blv]

It doesn't matter that some people would like the current gun narrative. The new party would not be catering to extremes. It would be catering to common sense. So if someone read the platform and decided it still sounded like and infringement of their rights, well, that person probably has been building an arsenal of weapons since the 70's. Oh, and they're probably a libertarian

I think it would matter..and I wasn't referring to those who marched to the NRA's tune...I was referring to the majority of -dems- who think that the current party platform on gun control is either good, or should be even more restrictive.  This third party would fail to draw dems who wanted"stricter gun control" or...the removal of private ownership on grounds of that particular issue.  It also wouldn't draw repubs, since that exactly what -moderate- republicans already propose...and the nutter want crazy people to be able to purchase guns.  

I'm not criticizing the proposed platform, I'm commenting on the ability of any platform to draw votes on the grounds of that particular issue as stated.  

Exactly, people don't understand how a good mixture of capitalism and socialism is the best system. There is an incentive for growth and ingenuity, but also a limit to profit over basic humanitarianism. This is the best time for this party to be rolled out because people are so frazzled. Its like we have been listening to a debate between bill maher and bill O'reilly for years, and the new party would be like watching Barney instead.

If Bill Maher is the standard for an extreme leftist position.....then there is no extreme left, left...in america.  Maher is a progressive libertarian.

Let me be clear, I love Maher. I just saw him the other night and he is pure common sense. I used him as an example because his way is unpalatable to the right the same that O'Reilly is unpalatable to the left.

But back to the the issue of gun control. Just imagine that the dems did what I think they should do. Dissolve their party and then reorganize into a new party that is like the Five Guys burger menu. Easy to understand and even easier to consume. (I love five guys so please forgive the constant comparison )

So you make a good point. What about the dems, that believe we should eradicate the 2nd amendment. I say, let them start their own party. It would get traction, but on the same level that the green party does. In the hypothetical universe where my plan is carried out, I just do not see the vast majority of Democrats jumping ship to any other party. I would also assume that if the party was going to also work towards Bernie like platforms, then the gun control nuts would more than likely compromise.

If the GOP wanted to reach out to them they would have to be more moderate in their platform. But how likely is that? The GOP knows that if they ever went back to being moderates as a platform, the crazies that they have been ginning up for the past view decades would revolt and start a new party or jump ship to libertarians. So in my scenario, the GOP would either have to be more moderate, which is not a bad thing, or continue to only cater to the craziest of philosophies. More than likely, the GOP would try to gin up even more sensationalist messaging, but if the new progressive party held their ground as being reasonable and easy to understand, then people would flock to the party that makes sense. Not just emotionally, but logically.

I am just curious, what do you see happening in a hypothetical world where the dems dissolve themselves to become a party with simple humanitarian based principles?

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Maybe if it was framed as a platform change/improvement/update, it might get some traction.

How about this as the basic platform. "We're sick of extremes trying to even out extremes. We're the richest nation in the world and there is no reason that we can't have growth, and basic human rights for all citizens." That would be the justification for dissolving the Dem party, and the cornerstone of what the new party is trying to accomplish, and a simple explanation as to why there is no reason we can't do it

[GUBU]

The problem with your positioning of the 3rd party Won2blv is that, institutionally, there's no left in US politics (even St. Bernie is Labour right in the Blair mode), you've just got the Tory right (protect traditional way of life), and Whig right (no government regulations). In economic terms both parties are Whig but in social terms (including maintenance of class divides) the Repubs swing hard Tory.

Introducing a third choice between the two is meaningless, as it'll quickly devolve into a clone of one or both. What is needed in US politics is a proper left leaning party.

[Won2blv]

The problem with your positioning of the 3rd party Won2blv is that, institutionally, there's no left in US politics (even St. Bernie is Labour right in the Blair mode), you've just got the Tory right (protect traditional way of life), and Whig right (no government regulations). In economic terms both parties are Whig but in social terms (including maintenance of class divides) the Repubs swing hard Tory.

Introducing a third choice between the two is meaningless, as it'll quickly devolve into a clone of one or both. What is needed in US politics is a proper left leaning party.

You can't have a left leaning party until people start swaying that way. The GOP has owned the messaging in America and the Democrats have been cowards. Democrats need to start with getting people to listen to them first

[GUBU]

The problem with your positioning of the 3rd party Won2blv is that, institutionally, there's no left in US politics (even St. Bernie is Labour right in the Blair mode), you've just got the Tory right (protect traditional way of life), and Whig right (no government regulations). In economic terms both parties are Whig but in social terms (including maintenance of class divides) the Repubs swing hard Tory.

Introducing a third choice between the two is meaningless, as it'll quickly devolve into a clone of one or both. What is needed in US politics is a proper left leaning party.

You can't have a left leaning party until people start swaying that way. The GOP has owned the messaging in America and the Democrats have been cowards. Democrats need to start with getting people to listen to them first

You can and you will, if you've got someone to communicate it the right way. Look how close Bernie got to the White House, and he wasn't even particularly clever with it.

And going back, look how scared the establishment within both parties were of Huey Long, because he was able cloak his socialism in language American people were comfortable with.

Just as the US is more receptive to fascism than most people would guess, they are also more receptive to socialist ideals disguised as something uniquely American.