Working backwards.

[WinterHold]

I do hope MK will reply to Atlas, this promises to be far more informative than most exchanges...

If he wants to have a debate about Shiism vs his go Quran alone approach, I would.   But this thread has nothing to do with that topic, nor did he present any compelling case against Twelver Shiism which is the sacred religion of submission of all times, but just manifests a disease of those trying to separate the family of the reminder from the reminder itself.

The family of Abraham, the family of Noah, the family of Moses and Aeron, and the family of Yaseen are in Quran.  He wishes to emphasize God revealed books, sure, but those books all emphasized God appointed Leaders and Guides with those books.

He wishes to say those books are God's direct guidance, I agree, but those books also nominate the Captains that sail the boat of salvation, that is by the name of God in it's sailing and anchoring.

I can have a serious discussion on this issue.  Ali is central to understanding Quran. I truly believe in that.

No no no, I don't do "duels" with missionaries. Instead of discussing ideas, you force me into a corner that lengthen the time of the discussion, until I'm tired enough. 

Then you get your victory that makes you feel better about yourself. Isn't that what all missionaries do?

Instead; just keep it short: I don't have the health nor do I have the tendency to waste my time over child play; and cheap tricks that make others feel good about themselves. You're not my girlfriend.

So....keep it short.

Do you have anything other than preaching to a medieval Arab family, that is composed of:

-Prophet Mohammed
-His cousin; Ali
-Ali's son
-Ali's grand kids

Preaching like in telling me to "shut up" and follow? like a goat?
You see? the debate ended before it even starts.

In the Middle East, religious schools also finished debating, and so guns were risen, bombs were thrown, before that swords were waved.
Instead of wasting my time on walls of text you call debate, tell me the bloody history of your cult:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Camel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Siffin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazid_I

So much history. 
Anything? keep it short. 

Now; I will predict the future:

1- I dodged your sniper shot at me, in your debate shooting attempt; so you will do a small propaganda cassette that says I quit against your courage and Ali-induced will and logic.
2- The family of Mohammed halped you.



 

It's like..no !

[Astreja]

Okay.  Kindly ask your god to drop by my home at its earliest convenience.  I do not consider scriptures or religions to be evidence, so it must be an in-person, face-to-face visit.  This is not negotiable; it is the only thing that I consider acceptable evidence for the existence of god-like beings.

You know if a holy book claiming to be from God didn't bring this exact objection of yours and had a whole response to it in an eloquent manner, with a repeated theme, from multiple angles,  I would not believe it's from God.

Ah.  You're selectively gullible, then.  Many books claim to be from gods, yet you accept only the Islamic ones.  Why don't you believe all the others?

You are not the first nor will be the last that brings this non-negotiable criterion on God.  The sad thing is you believe this is a source of some sort of honor to you.

No, that is a false assertion.  It has nothing whatsoever to do with "honor."    I know from personal experience how trivially easy it is to write a "holy book" -- yes, I've done it myself -- so it is perfectly reasonable to assume that all holy books are merely human inventions.  An actual visit from a god is the only thing capable of convincing me.  There is literally nothing else that will work.  I know this because at multiple times in my life I tried to practise a religion, but was never able to overcome the sensation that I was just playing make-believe.

[Athene]

The diagonal approach: 
 

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hehe...

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