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Hacking The Ignorance
21st September 2010, 23:25
Post: #11
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RE: Hacking The Ignorance
'ignorance" is relative and 'the right thing' is a subjective moral judgement.

Perhaps not immoral,but certainly arrogant. We have no innate right to impose our values or to make others do anything.There are no such things as innate rights.

The world is full of people who think they have 'THE TRUTH' or believe their world views the best tor at least superior to others.

I avoid such people,but usually laugh at them first.

MY world views includes: I rooly,trooly don't care about the beliefs or behaviour of others unless it effects me,except in the abstract.

I had about 30 years of social/political activism. Not interested in causes or ideologies any more.
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.
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21st September 2010, 23:52
Post: #12
    4 years membership!
RE: Hacking The Ignorance
(21st September 2010 23:25)padraic Wrote:  I avoid such people,but usually laugh at them first.

Unfortunately, where I live (Arkansawwww), you CAN'T avoid them... (the most gobsmacking moment for me was going to a big meeting at the hospital where I work and the CEO "led us in prayer.") While I don't even feel it is really important to advertise to the world my own beliefs or lack thereof, I also don't like the fact that I have to hide it and lie to others. My manager is a fundamentalist and the last thing I need is to be out of a job, especially in this shitty economy (and in the south no less, which has always been shitty). Yes, it really is that bad, especially when you live in the Armpit of America. Its enough to drive one batshit insane.

My experiences in New Zealand was radically different and it was such a breath of fresh air. If I lived somewhere like that it wouldn't be so prevalent and yeah, I wouldn't care either. I don't want to care-- but when you are surrounded by it personally, it is not so easy.
“Society is not a disease, it is a disaster. What a stupid miracle that one can live in it.” ~ E.M. Cioran
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22nd September 2010, 00:05 (This post was last modified: 22nd September 2010 00:07 by gargantuan.)
Post: #13
    3 years membership!
RE: Hacking The Ignorance
(21st September 2010 23:25)padraic Wrote:  Perhaps not immoral,but certainly arrogant. We have no innate right to impose our values or to make others do anything.There are no such things as innate rights.

It's a sentiment that looks good on paper, but from where I'm sitting it serves no practical purpose. Whatever the world looks like next year, next week or next century will be the result of opposing ideas and opinions battling it out for superiority. What other people think has a very real and measurable effect on my life. We may not have an innate right to impose our will on others, but we do have a responsibility.

That said, after 30 years of political activism, I guess you've done your bit. I haven't though.
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Kudos given by (2): tackattack, Entropist
22nd September 2010, 00:44
Post: #14
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RE: Hacking The Ignorance
Quote:We may not have an innate right to impose our will on others, but we do have a responsibility.


Really,based on what exactly? By that I mean on what authority?


My moral values include an imperative to give to charity as simply moral. However, I do not consider that a general principle or have the arrogance to assert everyone 'should' do as I do.

I don't have any problem with what you choose to believe or do in principle. I have a problem when you start talking about what 'we' should do and about responsibilities 'we' have. These are your personal values, not universal moral imperatives. (there are no such things).


I'm probably being a bit harsh: I was a child of the 60's.WE were going to change the world for the better. I was a Fabian for a long time and an active trade unionist all of my working life. Looking around, I'm sure you can see what a bang up job we babyboomers have done.

Keep your passion and your commitment for as long as you can.Cool Shades
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.
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Kudos given by (1): tackattack
22nd September 2010, 01:51
Post: #15
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RE: Hacking The Ignorance
ah, so it's the word 'we' you object to. Well that's not a problem, simply replace it with whatever you want. The point of the thread was to canvas ideas for how ignorance could be hacked. Picking it apart over that one word is a tad pedantic.

As for the question of responsibility and authority, we'll that's easy. My Authority. Or do you deny me the pleasure of deciding for myself what is right and what is wrong?

And if my concept of right and wrong could be subverted with a cheap hack, then it was fundamentally flawed anyway and in need of replacing. That's what hacks expose.
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22nd September 2010, 03:45 (This post was last modified: 22nd September 2010 03:46 by padraic.)
Post: #16
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RE: Hacking The Ignorance
Quote:Or do you deny me the pleasure of deciding for myself what is right and what is wrong?


For yourself? Of course not. For others? Absolutely.


Objecting to 'we' is neither pedantic nor trivial, but basic. There is no 'we'. You speak for yourself and only for yourself,unless we had an election putting you in charge, which I missed.Angel Cloud
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.
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22nd September 2010, 09:47 (This post was last modified: 22nd September 2010 09:51 by gargantuan.)
Post: #17
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RE: Hacking The Ignorance
No, this really is getting pedantic now. What is it you don't get? I don't have some magical influence over the rest of the human race. I can't impose my will on others at whim. Do you think I'm God?

I used the term "we" without thinking because I was canvasing ideas from everyone, myself included. I could have said "Does anyone have any ideas how they... " or "you", but I think we'd still be here having this same "debate". Ironically, the one word I couldn't have used is 'I', which is what you seem to be suggesting.

I don't believe we're still debating this. I'm confident each of your somewhat dubious ethical concerns have been addressed but still you persist in splitting hairs over something I don't believe you even believe yourself.

You have a world view that you're attempting to impose on everyone who reads this thread simply by posting. Either it's a luxury no one else but you is entitled to, or you're being trite.

Can we move on please?
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22nd September 2010, 14:12
Post: #18
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RE: Hacking The Ignorance
Civil disputes between atheists are some much more civilized when there's no theists involved Tongue
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

"A lot of people are unwilling to acknowledge anything that contradicts their worldview. So telling them that it's false doesn't necessarily slow them down. That's how urban legends get started for the most case. Like the woman who supposedly put her poodle in the microwave to dry it off. And it exploded." David Mikkelson (snopes)
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23rd September 2010, 07:43
Post: #19
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RE: Hacking The Ignorance
(22nd September 2010 14:12)tackattack Wrote:  Civil disputes between atheists are some much more civilized when there's no theists involved Tongue

You've obviously haven't seen a youtube debate amongst atheists. Big Grin
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23rd September 2010, 10:07
Post: #20
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RE: Hacking The Ignorance
(23rd September 2010 10:06)jeckbets Wrote:  Hi,
I wanted to record a full CD of data, but not the closing process, although there are errors. I think the error detection is based on the very hard, so was wondering if anyone knew of a hardware hack to bypass it.

SPAMMER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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