Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
June 10, 2017 at 10:35 am (This post was last modified: June 10, 2017 at 10:37 am by Neo-Scholastic.)
This is so funny, because, the OP is referring to a Blog poster that I regularly follow. You might not get very good responses because the blogger is a Swedenborgian! Other denominations might not be familiar with the unique references to Good and Truth that have particular connotations in Swedenborg. That said I'm basically in the Laodicea church.
June 12, 2017 at 9:12 am (This post was last modified: June 12, 2017 at 9:19 am by Drich.)
(June 9, 2017 at 2:15 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: shouldn't there be a True Christian™ choice?
Something acknowledging Jesus' faith of apocalyptic Judaism ?? Practicing a religion about Jesus is clearly the last thing He had in mind, he wanted followers who practiced the religion he was sent to perfect.
no.
Each church list above is like a different denomination. There are seven expressions of faith that Christ recognizes here. Also know sitting in one of those building does not mean you are apart of said church either.
(June 9, 2017 at 1:02 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: For the resident theists, which one are you?
For atheists, former theists, which one were you?
Quote:TYPE 1
Ephesus
Message to the church: ‘These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: “I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name’s sake and have not become weary. Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”’ (Revelation 2:1-7)
Spiritual type: People who primarily regard doctrinal truths and not goods of life (Apocalypse Revealed §73)
Description: The people of the church in Ephesus have “tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars.” They are opposed to the heretical Nicolaitans (whose heresy, according to Apocalypse Revealed, was that a person could earn salvation by doing enough good deeds). These are people who have their doctrine right, and care about other people getting it right. That’s not a bad thing. But when you make doctrine the most important thing, it’s easy to “forget your first love” – to remember that the purpose of all true doctrine is to facilitate love.
Call to action: If you resonate with the description of Ephesus (and I confess that of all the churches this is the one that I usually feel closest to), the call is to repent and to go back to the basics – love to God, love to the neighbor. Doctrine is good, but if it is divorced from love, it leads to pride and coldness.
Promise: There is hope for the people of Ephesus – if you remember to focus on charity, your head knowledge will come alive as heart knowledge. In other words, you will be given fruit from the tree of life.
TYPE 2
Smyrna
Message to the church: “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: “I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ‘ (Revelation 2:8-11)
Spiritual type: People who are engaged in good endeavors as regards life, and caught up in falsities as regards doctrine. (Apocalypse Revealed §91)
Description: The people of the church in Smyrna have already undergone tribulation and poverty, and it’s about to get worse: they’re going to be thrown into prison and tested. According to Apocalypse Revealed, Smyrna represents people who are striving to live good lives, but who have some wrong ideas. If you have false ideas in your doctrine, it will inevitably cause you pain and suffering. And because none of us has a perfect understanding, we’ll all spend some time in Smyrna. How do you know if you’re in Smyrna? This one’s hard – if you knew you had wrong ideas, you’d change them. But if your particular ideas of faith aren’t working – e.g. your concept of faith is one that both condemns human effort and tells you you must try to believe – it’s possible you’re in Smyrna.
Call to action: The church in Smyrna is called to “be faithful unto death.” If you’re being overwhelmed with doubt and despair, keep faithfully living as you believe God has called you to live. Even if you don’t have everything correct, striving to live faithfully will carry you through the trials and eventually bring you to a clearer understanding.
Promise: The people of Smyrna are promised a “crown of life,” or a victory garland. Despite the hardships you undergo, if you remain faithful you will overcome; you will “not be hurt by the second death.”
TYPE 3
Pergamos
Message to the church: “And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, ‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: “I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.” ‘ (Revelation 2:12-17)
Spiritual type: People who place everything of the church in good works and not anything in truths. (Apocalypse Revealed §107)
Description: In many ways, Pergamos is the polar opposite of Ephesus. Ephesians put too much emphasis on doctrine at the expense of good works; inhabitants of Pergamos put too much emphasis on good works and downplay the need for theology or doctrine. If you find yourself saying, “Why does it matter what I believe if I’m doing good things for other people?”, you might be in Pergamos. The problem with this is twofold. First, faith helps you understand what deeds are actually good and what might in the end be harmful even if they seem good. Someone with the best of intentions can be manipulated into doing harm if they are not putting careful thought into how they serve others. Second, without faith, it’s easy to start feeling superior to others because of your good deeds, or even – like the Nicolaitans – that you’ve earned a heavenly reward. Good deeds like this lead to an attitude of superiority and condescension.
Call to action: If you resonate with the message to Pergamos, you are called to repent, to heed sword coming of the Lord’s mouth, i.e. the truth. Don’t discount the importance of learning the truth. It’s only through the truth that good intentions are made effective.
Promise: The people of Pergamos are promised “hidden mana” to eat. There’s something precious and deep here. If you’re one of these people, you won’t necessarily ever be someone who writes or talks in detailed language about theology. But when you add truth to your existing good intentions, you gain an unspoken, deep kind of wisdom that is more meaningful than any kind of academic knowledge.
TYPE 4
Thyatira
Message to the church: “And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, ‘These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: “I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. “Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations– ‘HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON; THEY SHALL BE DASHED TO PIECES LIKE THE POTTER’S VESSELS’ as I also have received from My Father; and I will give him the morning star. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ‘ (Revelation 2:18-29)
Spiritual type: People who possess a faith springing from charity, as well as to people who possess a faith divorced from charity. (Apocalypse Revealed §124)
Description: There are actually a few different types of people who spiritually belong to the church in Thyatira, but what binds them together is that they put faith first. For some, this is a good thing – they have a faith that is connected to “works, love, service,” and “patience.” But they have allowed some of the Lord’s “servants” to give into sexual immorality and idolatry. This second group consists of people who pay lip service to faith but don’t make it a matter of life – they marry faith to evil works, and so profane it. If faith is the most important thing to you, this is always something to remain vigilant for – a temptation to downplay the need to live by that faith. If faith requires only an intellectual belief and not faithfulness to the Lord and His commandments, then it is not really faith.
Call to action: The truth is that faith is not the primary thing – love is – and that putting faith first will always lead to some problems. But if you feel like you cannot put love first without losing your faith, then you are called to “hold fast to what you have” – the firm conviction that faith requires intentional allegiance to the Lord and His commandments.
Promise: The people of Thyatira who overcome and keeps the Lord’s works to the end will “rule over the nations with a rod of iron.” That rod of iron represents the solid, simple teachings from the literal sense of Scripture about the the importance of living out your faith. These simple teachings will give you strength to overcome that temptation to make faith only a matter of intellectual belief, until you receive “the morning star” – a clear sight of the truth.
TYPE 5
Sardis
Message to the church:”And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, ‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ‘ (Revelation 3:1-6)
Spiritual type: People who are engaged in a lifeless worship, one without charity and faith. (Apocalypse Revealed §154)
Description: The people in Sardis “think they are alive, but they are dead.” These are people who think of themselves as good Christians because they go to church, sing worship songs, and say prayers, but whose faith doesn’t actually effect the way they live. There’s a funny thing about Sardis: we all know people who seem to fit this description, but very few of us would put ourselves there. So how do you know if you might be in Sardis? It takes some serious, honest self-reflection as you ask yourself, “What are the practical, tangible ways I live differently than I would without my faith?” If you have trouble answering that, you might be hanging out in Sardis, even if you are a devout churchgoer. And for those of us who aren’t, it’s important to remember that even in Sardis there are some who have not “defiled their garments” – that is, some pious folks who strike us as holier-than-thou really are living genuinely Christian lives.
Call to action: The church in Sardis is called to “strengthen the things that remain, that are ready to die.” If you’ve fallen into a pattern of attending church regularly without letting it really challenge you, you start to lose your ability to be reached by the message of the Word at all. But the people in Sardis do have something to their advantage: those acts of worship really can be a place to encounter God and be changed. All you need to do is strengthen them by listening for the truth and finding concrete ways to live it – not just on Sunday morning, but every day.
Promise: Those who overcome will be “clothed in white garments.” White garments are a symbol of living in the truth. It’s not by staying aloof from the world that your garments become clean; it’s actually by living the truth in the real world that your worship becomes more genuine and pure.
TYPE 6
Philadelphia
Message to the church: “And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, ‘These things says He who is holy, He who is true, “He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens“: “I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie–indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ‘ (Revelation 3:7-13)
Spiritual type: People who are governed by truths springing from goodness derived from the Lord. (Apocalypse Revealed §172)
Description: The people of the church in Philadelphia (which translates to “brotherly love”) is praised for their work and their perseverance. These are spiritually mature people, who have faithfully put love into action even in the face of adversity. There is an open door before them which no one can shut. And yet for all that praise, they are said to have only “a little strength.” Why? Because people who have arrived at this state know from experience that their own strength doesn’t get them anywhere. If you’re in Philadelphia, you’ve experienced how little power you have on your own, and you have learned to rely on the Lord’s strength. You’re not perfect – and you know that better than anyone else – but you continue to live in the Lord’s truth, inspired by His love.
Call to action: Unlike the other churches, Philadelphia is not called to turn away from anything, but rather to “hold fast” what they have. Do not rest on your laurels; even though Philadelphia has overcome much, they need to keep pressing forward so they don’t “lose their crown.” Keep faithfully and joyfully living in the Lord’s strength.
Promise: If Philadelphians persevere, they become “pillars the temple.” We still talk about “pillars of the church,” those whose faith and love holds up everyone around them. If you’ve arrived in Philadelphia, you are given the great privilege of mentoring and lifting up your fellow servants on the path.
TYPE 7
Laodicea
Message to the church: “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’ – and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked – counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ‘ ” (Revelation 3:14-22)
Spiritual type: People who base their beliefs sometimes on their own thinking, sometimes on the Word, and so profane holy things. (Apocalypse Revealed §198)
Description: Of all the letters to the churches, the final message to Laodicea is the harshest. The people of the church are lukewarm, and because of this, they will be “vomited out.” What is so bad about Laodicea? The members of Laodicea are people who vacillate between doing whatever they happen to feel like, and following God. Why is this even more harmful than being “cold” all the time (i.e. never turning to God?) Because someone who has been only “cold” still has the potential of being eventually reached by the Word. Someone who occasionally embraces the Word and at other times does not, on the other hand, gradually makes it impossible for the Word to have any effect on their lives. This isn’t to say that God expects perfection. People in Laodicea aren’t Christians who try and fail to be faithful to the Lord; they are people who sometimes try and sometimes do not. It takes hard and honest self-awareness to admit you’re in Laodicea.
Call to action: Laodicea is called to “be zealous and repent.” They are called to “buy gold refined in the fire.” Those images of zeal and fire show the way back if you find yourself in Laodicea: a burning commitment to acquire steadfast love by faithfully, constantly, passionately putting the Lord’s truth into action.
Promise: Despite the dire warning for Laodicea, there is hope even if you find yourself here. If you allow yourself to be “rebuked and chastened” – i.e. experience the discomfort that comes from forcing yourself to change your habits – you can “dine with the Lord” and even sit with Him on His throne. Instead of being spat out, you can become one with Him.
If I ever rage quit here, it occurs to me it will most likely be over the relentless blasphemies, heresies, and apostasies believers have spewed during my stay and that it utterly and absolutely proves there is no need for AF to even exist anymore.
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
April 26, 2018 at 4:00 pm (This post was last modified: April 26, 2018 at 4:04 pm by Fake Messiah.)
I was thinking about the types of not only Christians, but religious people in general and I remembered this topic, so I decided to put it here to see what people think about it. Am I on the right track?
1. Misinformed
There are people that have just been fed with wrong info about the world and once they learn/ read that stories from their religious book did not and could not happen and that their reasoning is wrong they abandon religion.
2. Crazy
These religious people do hear and perhaps even read enough to know that their religious book is fake, but, still, they insist that it's true. They just claim that Sai Baba can fly or that Jesus heals people every day, that sky is filled with saucers and invisible aliens are around us. Why? Because being crazy is fun, if it wasn't fun there wouldn't be so many crazy people. They become crazy either because of personal tragedy that, rather then to cope with, they go into their fantasy land; it doesn't have to be some tragedy that happens in a moment or over a year, but simply life with it's problems and goings like death of parents, problems with kids, money etc. people simply learn to cope with those problems by simply fantasizing about ancient giants, angels, supernatural things.
I mean this is something that everybody does. Everybody takes a break from their problems by running away into fantasy be it into games, TV, books, comics, but religious people cling to their fantasy all the time. They stay in it. They don't know and don't want to get out.
That's perhaps why it's said that it's easier for younger people to leave religion than older. They may have even been in nr. 1 category and didn't encounter rationality in time so they turned into nr. 2.
3. Retarded people
Some people are just that: stupid. To them basic stuff are simply too complicated to understand and they resort to simple explanations (world is flat, world is 6000 years old and created by a wizard using magic etc). Difference between 2 & 3 is that people in 2 can understand a lot of reasonable explanations of how the world works and they look for "gaps" to hide their god they believe in, unless they had a really bad tragedy in their life so their craziness is much more intense and they believe in everything.
I guess some of the brain damage might not only be biological, but years of aggressive brainwashing and by that I mean that they don't even dare to think because of the devil. They are frightened. But I guess this is something I still work on.
4. People that make money off religion
They don't really care what's true or isn't true, they just follow the money. Mostly they just know it's all bullshit, since they themselves keep inventing it.
But of course it's not just religious leaders, there could be combination of 2 & 4: a person that is crazy, or just in a state of being misinformed and then gets a job on religious radio which brings them money so they rather care to protect their income.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
I can identify with most of them, Christians go through phases as most people in the world do. Unknown to most atheist is the fact that there are few in each church that do the majority of the work and these people get tired and frustrated and move from one of these churches to another but seem to always come back to doing what they believe Christ has for them. I do not believe the churches mention were to categorize individual Christians, they are examples of what we might experience as Christians and what we need to do to get out of the rut we place ourselves in, they show that we can not rely on ourselves but must trust in Christ to do His work.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
