A friend of mine...

[Darwinian]

I have a friend who visits every week who is a very strong, gnostic atheist.

The problem he has is that his wife, whilst a lovely girl, is making big waves in her local spiritualist church. She is now becoming a bit of a creationist and tries to persuade him to her way of thinking.

She has always been this way and used to be a born again Christian but now seems to be moving into mediumship and apparently is now one of those that James Randi loves to hate, she contacts the dear departed.

Now, he has a family, three boys, and of course loves her very much but is starting to get worried that she is getting in a bit too deep, so much so that this seems to be all we talk about when he visits as he can't talk about it at home.

If he was your friend what advice could you offer him?

[Brick-top]

I wouldn't say a thing.

Unfortunatly unless she confronted me directly about her beliefs and talked about him I wouldn't say anything.

[Tiberius]

I hate relationships with theists...they almost never work out well. I gave up on them ages ago so I can't offer much advice...

[Brick-top]

I hate relationships with theists...they almost never work out well. I gave up on them ages ago so I can't offer much advice...

So you're saying you wouldn't go for it if a really sexy mormon came to your door?

[Tiberius]

If she was looking for a relationship then probably not. I don't care for people who think they have magical underwear...

[Jason Jarred]

It's a problem alright, I can't understand how people can be together for so long, have a family etc, and still not have a combined view on religion. From my experience the more time I spend with people and discuss important issues, the more our views tend to merge as we persuade each other into a common ground. Maybe they don't communicate enough? Maybe the issue is too sensitive or awkward for them to discuss?

As for your role, I wouldn't give any advice except to actively listen and empathise with him. I've always found that when people are distressed or need to talk about something they don't really want advice, they just want somebody to listen and show that they're listening, and understand what they're going through. These are some rules that work for me:

1) Don't give advice
2) Don't change the subject
3) Don't analyse what they're saying
4) Do reflect back what you've heard to make sure you understand the emotion *and* the logic
5) Do genuinely *listen* and try to understand the emotion behind your friends words

I don't see it so much as a religious issue for you, more of a relational issue between you and your friend. If you had to offer any advice, I would gently suggest for them to see a counsellor. I went to a counsellor with my partner two years ago when our relationship was in dire shape, and things have never been better (we celebrated 7 years together in March). It all comes down to how well we communicate our emotions, our needs, our thoughts.

I'm amazed I could find the link after all these years, but I seriously recommend this resource to anybody interested. This is a link directly to the "Listening and Empathy Responding" article, I recommend at the very least the entirety of Chapter 13. Here's an excerpt which shows the benefits of empathy responding to friends or loved ones (which I personally can verify):

• It shows you care and that you understood the other person. Thus, people will enjoy talking to you and will open up more.
  
• If you have misunderstood, the talker can immediately correct
  your impressions. You learn more about people.
  
• It usually directs the conversation towards important emotional
  topics.
  
• It lets the talker know that you (the listener) accept him/her
  and will welcome more intimate, personal topics. It invites
  him/her to tell his/her story and vent his/her feelings.
  
• Since it is safe to talk about "deep" subjects, the talker can
  express feelings and self-explore, carefully considering all
  his/her deep-seated emotions, the reasons for those feelings
  and his/her options. Thus, it is therapeutic.
  
• It reduces our irritation with others because we understand. To
  understand is to forgive.
  
• It may even reduce our prejudice or negative assumptions
  about others because we realize we now have a means of
  finding out what another person is really like. Furthermore, we
  discover everyone is "understandable."

This has been a huge help for me over the years and I can assure you that it provides some practical and real world advice that you can actually put to use and see that it works, it's not all just theory and pontification!
I hope that is useful to you.

[Brick-top]

If she was looking for a relationship then probably not. I don't care for people who think they have magical underwear...

A thong?

[Darwinian]

Good advice Thanks Jason and everyone else..

As I said, apart from this they get on very, very well.

It's a problem alright, I can't understand how people can be together for so long, have a family etc, and still not have a combined view on religion. From my experience the more time I spend with people and discuss important issues, the more our views tend to merge as we persuade each other into a common ground. Maybe they don't communicate enough? Maybe the issue is too sensitive or awkward for them to discuss?

As for your role, I wouldn't give any advice except to actively listen and empathise with him. I've always found that when people are distressed or need to talk about something they don't really want advice, they just want somebody to listen and show that they're listening, and understand what they're going through. These are some rules that work for me:

1) Don't give advice
2) Don't change the subject
3) Don't analyse what they're saying
4) Do reflect back what you've heard to make sure you understand the emotion *and* the logic
5) Do genuinely *listen* and try to understand the emotion behind your friends words

I don't see it so much as a religious issue for you, more of a relational issue between you and your friend. If you had to offer any advice, I would gently suggest for them to see a counsellor. I went to a counsellor with my partner two years ago when our relationship was in dire shape, and things have never been better (we celebrated 7 years together in March). It all comes down to how well we communicate our emotions, our needs, our thoughts.

I'm amazed I could find the link after all these years, but I seriously recommend this resource to anybody interested. This is a link directly to the "Listening and Empathy Responding" article, I recommend at the very least the entirety of Chapter 13. Here's an excerpt which shows the benefits of empathy responding to friends or loved ones (which I personally can verify):

• It shows you care and that you understood the other person. Thus, people will enjoy talking to you and will open up more.
  
• If you have misunderstood, the talker can immediately correct
  your impressions. You learn more about people.
  
• It usually directs the conversation towards important emotional
  topics.
  
• It lets the talker know that you (the listener) accept him/her
  and will welcome more intimate, personal topics. It invites
  him/her to tell his/her story and vent his/her feelings.
  
• Since it is safe to talk about "deep" subjects, the talker can
  express feelings and self-explore, carefully considering all
  his/her deep-seated emotions, the reasons for those feelings
  and his/her options. Thus, it is therapeutic.
  
• It reduces our irritation with others because we understand. To
  understand is to forgive.
  
• It may even reduce our prejudice or negative assumptions
  about others because we realize we now have a means of
  finding out what another person is really like. Furthermore, we
  discover everyone is "understandable."

This has been a huge help for me over the years and I can assure you that it provides some practical and real world advice that you can actually put to use and see that it works, it's not all just theory and pontification!
I hope that is useful to you.

[StewartP]

Tricky

Jason's advice is hard to beat. The guy obviously loves his wife. Any insinuation that you think she's flakey will naturally make him defend his wife, and jepordise your friendship.

We have a few friends who have partners who dabble in who. I mainly keeo my mouth shut, it's not worth risking a good friendship. If I'm questioned directly about things I'll say what I think, but I won't jump in all skeptic like.

[Boulat]

Has anyone been in this situation:

You're in a group of people just chatting or whatever it is you do with a group of people. Then the subject turns to something completely pointless like alternative therapy or something supernatural, have you ever then went all out and slayed all of it?