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Atheism; the next step
#1
Atheism; the next step
(October 12, 2010 at 8:10 am)solja247 Wrote: A lot of other religions back then thought the world didnt have a beginning, it just went in cycles...
So perhaps it was incredible that the Bible does talk about a beginning...

Those other religions got it absolutely right. The world does indeed exist in cycles, perhaps the universe does as well...

Suns grow and burn, planets form life around them, suns decay and fade out, planets die around them...

The polytheists always got it right in their own way; the egyptians for one said "if you're looking for heaven (truth and perfection) observe nature". The natural world exists in a state of sustainablity, natural harmony and indeed, total perfection.. to emulate nature and base a society upon it is a state of mind or philosophy which is still unrivaled by any modern or medival ideology. The fact that we as humans still think we're above it all stems from the idea that god made the world for us, and made the animals to slaughter them. Even if you think our modern industrial world is much better than ancient egypt, consider that the ancient world existed for hundreds of thousands of years, and that we in the modern world have been at our peak for maybe 60 years and we've already nearly destroyed the planet. Its a HUGE example of short term greed (over 60 years) which is going to cost us more than we know in the long term. And that.. for all you capitalists.. is called unstainable business.

I'm quite disheartened -talking to atheists on here- that they still display the same selfish, short term benefit/long term disadvantage and destructive individualistic mentality and behaviour patterns as the christians. I mean, once you've overcome their belief that "man is better than nature" and "god made the world for us", surely your mind begins to deal with the concept that man is in fact a part of the natural world, and that man should obey it.. surely?

Or put it this way... my favorite quote Malcolm X- if you dont stand for something you fall for anything- right? If you denounce religion, but then refuse to do anything more such as fix the damage its caused, then you'll still find that you're a victim of it and that these christians.. despite their sheer stupidity.. have ultimately beaten you.

Wake the fuck up.................

Dead Horse


Sooooooooooo what is the next step?

You're an atheist, that's awesome, but what comes next?

4 Horsemen
[Image: cassandrasaid.jpg]
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#2
RE: Atheism; the next step
Nothing comes next. I am an atheist and all that means is that I do not believe the claims that deities exist. So far, nothing I have seen nor heard has convinced me otherwise, so I will continue to disbelieve those claims for the foreseeable future. That's all there is to being an atheist. What you are talking about is not atheism, so much as atheism inspired activism.
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#3
RE: Atheism; the next step
Atheism is not a club, there is no, "If atheism, then..." it leads nowhere and holds no answers. I see what you are talking about, and it is a monumental undertaking to figure out how to handle the whole of humanity in such a way as to provide the greatest benefit for the greatest number of planet users while still maintaining the planet that we are using. I have plenty of ideas but it is hard to see how any of them could actually play out in reality without massive opposition.

Here are just a few and one rebutle for each:

Eugenics program to aide evolution through conscious selection (um, yeah but who decides what defines "favorable traits" is white skin a favorable trait?)

Libertarianism tempered by government controlled social programs (Nope, can't think of anything, that one is pure awesome.)

Computerized voting systems to assure fully democratic decisions on EVERYTHING, dismantling the legislative branch of government. (Most people are idiots who couldn't find their ass with both hands I wouldn't want them deciding anything)

Lazer cats (Won't they be missused for evil?)

Rhizo
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#4
RE: Atheism; the next step
god is just a symptom. intellectual dishonesty, glorified with the name faith, is the disease.
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#5
RE: Atheism; the next step
(October 12, 2010 at 1:02 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Atheism is not a club, there is no, "If atheism, then..." it leads nowhere and holds no answers. I see what you are talking about, and it is a monumental undertaking to figure out how to handle the whole of humanity in such a way as to provide the greatest benefit for the greatest number of planet users while still maintaining the planet that we are using. I have plenty of ideas but it is hard to see how any of them could actually play out in reality without massive opposition.

It's a complicated way i'm looking at religion- specifically christianity- but yet its so simple at the same time, if you examine the course of history under primarily monotheistic (christian, islamic) rules you can clearly see the actions of people following these rules and the nations, empires and organisations being founded with their principles as a given. And the huge thing that seems to fucking obvious me is that by following these rules, conciously or unconciously, you become part of the "system" in that you fall into the same traps, the same destruction and you're still the humble slave to your owner in one way or another.. and no matter what you do or say to reject this system -as many people do- if you obey these christian laws you are doomed to fail, and the cycle repeats; you live and you die and the same people are still in charge and so on and so on. It's almost like these religious laws hardwire us to be slaves and we don't know any different.

Christianity is without a doubt the earliest form of enforced and harmful propaganda. So as I said, and for the reasons given at the start, once you understand the concept that "man is not above nature" then logically you've begun the process of seperating yourself not just from the docile congregation, but from the entire system.. right?

I'm right on this without a doubt, but my "discontentment" is that more people havent come to the same conclusion; whether they're atheist or just regard theological labels as divisive and refuse a category- as I tend to do.

Is it the case where people just don't care and do nothing deliberately.. or is it the case that they're unsure of what to do? Both options of course have the same result, which is "doing nothing".


But i'm genuinely curious.

Cat
[Image: cassandrasaid.jpg]
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#6
RE: Atheism; the next step
Cerrone,

It seems to me that people often spout off about how this system or that system is not working and give a nod to the fact that something else needs to happen. This is easy to say but doesn't lead anywhere. For example, you say:
Quote:And the huge thing that seems to fucking obvious me is that by following these rules, conciously or unconciously, you become part of the "system" in that you fall into the same traps, the same destruction and you're still the humble slave to your owner in one way or another.. and no matter what you do or say to reject this system -as many people do- if you obey these christian laws you are doomed to fail, and the cycle repeats; you live and you die and the same people are still in charge and so on and so on. It's almost like these religious laws hardwire us to be slaves and we don't know any different.

It seems to me that you see no value in the current system at all which is flawed thinking. There is a lot of value in the current system as well as religion. Think about it, religion has ultimately been humans thinking about humans and using God as the ultimate appeal to authority to lend credence to their ideas, either through true belief or for manipulative ends. Why throw all that work away just because we don't believe in God? It is also exceedingly difficult to derail a system completely and start anew. It would be much more productive to look at what is already good about society and build from there.

Rhizo
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#7
RE: Atheism; the next step
Cerrone you sound exactly like some annoying eurosceptics that want to terminate the EU because they see it as not as successful as they want it to be, like you they must realized the system is built slowly trough the age of humanity and not perfect on the first try
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#8
RE: Atheism; the next step
What is it that you propose people do? Also, are you doing that thing? If not, why don't you lead by example? Berating people into doing "something" isn't effective. Personally, I'm unmoved. I think I will sit here doing "nothing."
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#9
RE: Atheism; the next step
(October 12, 2010 at 5:49 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: It seems to me that people often spout off about how this system or that system is not working and give a nod to the fact that something else needs to happen. This is easy to say but doesn't lead anywhere.

That's exactly what i'm saying, and what I have said for years! One of the reasons I gave up with libertarianist activism and even trade unions was because all I saw was a lot of talking and a deep seated desire to do nothing to back it up (there are expections, but they're few and far between); like you have a conversation with your friends in a bar one night about how fucked up the world is, but then you wake up the next morning and do nothing to remedy it.

(October 12, 2010 at 5:49 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: It seems to me that you see no value in the current system at all which is flawed thinking. There is a lot of value in the current system as well as religion. Think about it, religion has ultimately been humans thinking about humans and using God as the ultimate appeal to authority to lend credence to their ideas, either through true belief or for manipulative ends. Why throw all that work away just because we don't believe in God? It is also exceedingly difficult to derail a system completely and start anew. It would be much more productive to look at what is already good about society and build from there.

Rhizo

Hahaha you're damn right I see no value in the current system, it's a system of slavery designed that those at the top can have priviledges while it holds those at the bottom in a state of poverty- there has to be a huge number of people at the bottom propping up one person at the top, it's not fair or enjoyable and it breeds discontentment and wastes everyones lives in meaningless labour. You can say you've got the working class propping up the ruling class, or that you've got the people of third world nations propping up the people of first world countries. You can say what you like about reforming this system, but charities and social activism acheive nothing because the problems are caused by the people at the top impacting those underneath them; the inherant problem with the system itself.

(October 12, 2010 at 5:49 pm)Rhizomorph13 Wrote: Think about it, religion has ultimately been humans thinking about humans and using God as the ultimate appeal to authority to lend credence to their ideas, either through true belief or for manipulative ends. Why throw all that work away just because we don't believe in God?

Throw away manipulation that's deisgned to exploit? Certianly.

When Moses took the 42 commandments from the egyptians and removed the ones that encouraged social harmony, justice and liberty until he just had 10 commandments- and then that through the Roman Empire after its brutaly enforced conversion to christianity that we've built our world on these flawed commandments- doesn't it tell you that our world is deeply flawed? Look at the history, as soon as christianity spread, the world fell from the prosperity and wisdom of the ancient world into the dark ages, then the ignorance and plauges of medieval ages and then finally onto industrialisation and mass slavery and genocide.

Quote:Cerrone you sound exactly like some annoying eurosceptics that want to terminate the EU because they see it as not as successful as they want it to be, like you they must realized the system is built slowly trough the age of humanity and not perfect on the first try

It's not the first try though Ashendant, humanity was on the right path until christian intervention.

Quote:What is it that you propose people do? Also, are you doing that thing? If not, why don't you lead by example? Berating people into doing "something" isn't effective. Personally, I'm unmoved. I think I will sit here doing "nothing."

I propose people evaluate the actions of their behaviour, become aware of the long term negative consequences that is caused by getting short term gains and modify their behaviour and actions so that they aren't causing bad things to happen around them. And to become aware of where they are historically in the big picture of humanity, and just how their lives could be so much better if they put some effort into it.

And yeah that's what I do, and it works great for me- i'm just not impressed with the majority of humanity, that's my only discontentment.
[Image: cassandrasaid.jpg]
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#10
RE: Atheism; the next step
Quote:It's a complicated way i'm looking at religion- specifically christianity- but yet its so simple at the same time, if you examine the course of history under primarily monotheistic (christian, islamic) rules you can clearly see the actions of people following these rules and the nations, empires and organisations being founded with their principles as a given. And the huge thing that seems to fucking obvious me is that by following these rules, conciously or unconciously, you become part of the "system" in that you fall into the same traps, the same destruction and you're still the humble slave to your owner in one way or another.. and no matter what you do or say to reject this system -as many people do- if you obey these christian laws you are doomed to fail, and the cycle repeats; you live and you die and the same people are still in charge and so on and so on. It's almost like these religious laws hardwire us to be slaves and we don't know any different.

You are a slave no matter. You choose your master Wink

Quote:It's not the first try though Ashendant, humanity was on the right path until christian intervention.

Those bloody Christians! Nero should of killed them all!
Its ok to have doubt, just dont let that doubt become the answers.

You dont hate God, you hate the church game.

"God is not what you imagine or what you think you understand. If you understand you have failed." Saint Augustine

Your mind works very simply: you are either trying to find out what are God's laws in order to follow them; or you are trying to outsmart Him. -Martin H. Fischer
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