Saudi cleric says women too stupid to drive

[JackRussell]

As a blue-light UK ambulance driver and an advanced driving instructor I know this cleric is full of shit. My female colleagues are exceptional drivers.

Testorone fuelled males suck however.

My golden rules of education and empowerment of women don't seem to be important in the happy holiday SA. Go figure.

[Brian37]

MK you are not seeking proofs, you are seeking, like Jews and Christians, excuses to cling to old mythology.

Funny how a Christian and Muslim and Jew don't cling to the polytheism of Hindus, or Mayans or Zoroaster. Funny how all of you rightfully reject claims of Apollo and Thor and Horus.

Humans in our species history when they equate "proofs" or "evidence" to their particular club, are not arguing objectively, but looking for bad reasons to cling to mythology.

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Women are very capable of leadership and even being the bread winners of a family.

[WinterHold]

I don't believe Saudi Arabia government or most of the Wahabi clerics actually believe in Quran.  I mean this literally and not metaphorically.

Yep. Just like the government of Iran, and like Shiite Twelver clerics.
They use idiotic theocracies, to control ignorant people.

[Brian37]

I don't believe Saudi Arabia government or most of the Wahabi clerics actually believe in Quran.  I mean this literally and not metaphorically.

Yep. Just like the government of Iran, and like Shiite Twelver clerics.
They use idiotic theocracies, to control ignorant people.

That is the same in all religions. The only thing I object to is saying the majority of powers in human history don't believe the shit the peddle. I would say sure, many don't and see religion as useful to gaining power. But in human history the powers that rise for the most part do. I am not singling out Islam.

Trump I could care less if he believes or not. I don't think he gives a shit, even if he does believe, he is out for himself. Obama I do think believes but cares. I don't see Islam as any different. I don't even see China or India as any different knowing most humans have some sort of religion.

Religion is certainly useful in politics. Not just Islam but all. It can very easily be used to get the respective population to chase a utopia when utopias do not exist. I wont claim there are not well intended theists in politics, just that religion itself is a horrible way of conducting political compromise because religion is deeply personal to all sides.

[JackRussell]

It's No True Muslim time at AF.

[WinterHold]

Yep. Just like the government of Iran, and like Shiite Twelver clerics.
They use idiotic theocracies, to control ignorant people.

That is the same in all religions. The only thing I object to is saying the majority of powers in human history don't believe the shit the peddle. I would say sure, many don't and see religion as useful to gaining power. But in human history the powers that rise for the most part do. I am not singling out Islam.

Trump I could care less if he believes or not. I don't think he gives a shit, even if he does believe, he is out for himself. Obama I do think believes but cares. I don't see Islam as any different. I don't even see China or India as any different knowing most humans have some sort of religion.

Religion is certainly useful in politics. Not just Islam but all. It can very easily be used to get the respective population to chase a utopia when utopias do not exist. I wont claim there are not well intended theists in politics, just that religion itself is a horrible way of conducting political compromise because religion is deeply personal to all sides.

In Saudi Arabia, there is a belief that the royal family got its power by divine protection; I won't say all believe in this, but many believe in it; sadly. So what you say has a certain amount of truth to it; but it's not the case all the time. Religion is a card in the hands of rulers since the dawn of time.

To me, Obama and Trump serve the same secular cycle, with Trump drifting in the path of fascism more and more. That's what money do to you if you're not careful, and I don't think Trump was ever careful. Being black alone was an advantage to Obama -made him a little bit humble; maybe?- But eventually, both have the "'merica hell yeah" syndrome, both support dictators in my region, and both have a shitty foreign policy.

I don't believe humanity will ever achieve utopia. Difference is what humanity is all about; brains produce that difference with every bit, even with amount of sugar we put in our morning coffee. Religion might be used as a tranquilizer; an opium for the masses, but give it some time and people will kill each other again.

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It's No True Muslim time at AF.

To him and you; maybe.
To me, it's totally not. I just said it yesterday:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-51114-p...pid1624336

My belief -again-:

Sura 17, The Quran:

( 13 )   And [for] every person We have imposed his fate upon his neck, and We will produce for him on the Day of Resurrection a record which he will encounter spread open

So it's really up to you to believe or not believe; it's up to you to buy what I say or buy what others say.
But come to me, with this Avengers crap; and I swear I'll do whatever I can to stop you from harming me or harming the ones I love:

https://atheistforums.org/thread-51114-p...pid1624137

It's not about who the real Muslim is. It's about leaving me the hell alone and stop invading my thoughts with threats and missionary propaganda.

[Brian37]

MK, you have a mom, just like I do.

I don't know your mom's history, but I do know she got you to adulthood and you are not in prison as far as I know. My mom raised me and I didn't end up a violent person. You don't strike me as liking violence, but you do strike me as dreamy eyed and wanting good and justice like I did when I was young.

How is it two different moms raised kids to not be violent? Two moms from different sides of the planet whom never met each other?

I don't think religion is the cure one bit. I think the reason you haven't gone off the edge with your youth angst and I didn't go off the edge with my youth angst, is that both of us had just enough support to not lead to that desperation.

I am and always have been an oddball. I never fit in as a kid, always picked last at sports, desperate to fit in. My mom and I were also polar opposites politically and even neatness. She was raised authoritarian, I was sensitive. But the one thing I always knew, even with our differences, is that she would not let me drowned. She may have yelled at me, and not liked some of the things I did, but she was always my life guard.

So MK, if you agree that women are valuable, then don't look at the "value" as being a Ming Dynasty vase you cant touch, but valuable in that woman can be and are as durable and tough as men. Look at women like they can be your hero and be your mentor and caregiver.

My mom was my hero, my mentor and my caregiver, and she was far more mentally tough than I will ever be.

[AFTT47]

This is a good discussion. I don't have much to add to it beyond that except to say that it's nice to see.

MK: Like CL, you are hard not to like. I do think you are hopelessly starry-eyed and view the universe through rose-colored glasses, seeing it as you would like it to be rather than how it is. But you strike me as a good person who I would put quite a lot of trust in.

Brian37: You post some weird shit sometimes (IMHO) but when you hit a home run, you hit it as far as anybody. Great responses to MK without telling him to do sexually impossible things or going through the dictionary of cuss words.

[Mystic]

I don't believe Saudi Arabia government or most of the Wahabi clerics actually believe in Quran.  I mean this literally and not metaphorically.

Yep. Just like the government of Iran, and like Shiite Twelver clerics.
They use idiotic theocracies, to control ignorant people.

If only it was that simple, while true for some, not true of all, there is more a sinister motive behind many of our supposed leaders.