Why, God? Why?!

[The Grand Nudger]

- and if you don't clap hard enough, tinker bell will die.

[Angrboda]

Holy Crap George, do you have an abridged version?

You didn't understand the unabridged version, so I strongly doubt you would understand a condensed version. With regard to your objections, I'm reminded of the remark that, "That is not only not right; it is not even wrong." Regardless, I'm not feeling particularly well, so I'm going to defer a longer response to another time. I would only comment that in your rush to refute my position, you failed to first acquire an adequate grasp of what I was saying.

---

I would first like to address something in your comment I disagree with. You said: "God isn't a biological being" and "...and not something an immaterial spirit would have?" The spirit is noe immaterial as you might expect. It is made of matter but it is a much finer matter. Out spirits consist of a much finer material and are not subject to the same physical laws that our mortal bodies are subject to, at least not all of them.

Now about God. God is indeed the father of our spirits. Like any other father he wants to correct his children and teach them. Why do we need laws? If there were only 1 living thing in the universe there would be no laws. There would be no murders, no theft, no anything to be needful of a law. However we have laws to protect our rights and the rights of others. God gave us laws so we could learn to become like he is. The laws teach us love, charity, faith, benevolence, honesty, humility, chastity, righteousness, etc. Our bodies were designed with every organ, muscle, bone, gland, etc. to work together. The body dies when the spirit leaves it for good and returns to God who gave it. It is by faith that miracles happen. When miracles cease it is due to lack of faith. I hope this helps. I am not sure if I covered all of the questions, if not please let me know.

Thank you for your response.

[Drich]

Holy Crap George, do you have an abridged version?

You didn't understand the unabridged version, so I strongly doubt you would understand a condensed version.  With regard to your objections, I'm reminded of the remark that, "That is not only not right; it is not even wrong."  Regardless, I'm not feeling particularly well, so I'm going to defer a longer response to another time.  I would only comment that in your rush to refute my position, you failed to first acquire an adequate grasp of what I was saying.

---

I would first like to address something in your comment I disagree with. You said: "God isn't a biological being" and "...and not something an immaterial spirit would have?" The spirit is noe immaterial as you might expect. It is made of matter but it is a much finer matter. Out spirits consist of a much finer material and are not subject to the same physical laws that our mortal bodies are subject to, at least not all of them.

Now about God. God is indeed the father of our spirits. Like any other father he wants to correct his children and teach them. Why do we need laws? If there were only 1 living thing in the universe there would be no laws. There would be no murders, no theft, no anything to be needful of a law. However we have laws to protect our rights and the rights of others. God gave us laws so we could learn to become like he is. The laws teach us love, charity, faith, benevolence, honesty, humility, chastity, righteousness, etc. Our bodies were designed with every organ, muscle, bone, gland, etc. to work together. The body dies when the spirit leaves it for good and returns to God who gave it. It is by faith that miracles happen. When miracles cease it is due to lack of faith. I hope this helps. I am not sure if I covered all of the questions, if not please let me know.

Thank you for your response.

...Or maybe your view of Christianity is wrong, and you are trying to understand what I said through your view or rather what you think I should have said to you filtered through your lens of a 'moral God'/what makes this god's morality better than anyone else..

When in truth morality, right/wrong has nothing to do with God, as God does not hold us to a standard of 'morality' to judge us worthy. He hold Christ to that standard as we put on Christ's righteousness in place of our own.

Your whole God view is based on a jeudeo/catholic understanding of a works/Deeds based God. Where obedience and works yield righteousness. Again not the case. If you understood this to be not the case you would not have sought to rectify the morality of God over that of any other standard. As God's law/morality only serves one purpose, and that is to point out sin in the unrepentant, and to judge them. Once one repents the law becomes moot to us as t is moot to Christ.

[He lives]

You didn't understand the unabridged version, so I strongly doubt you would understand a condensed version.  With regard to your objections, I'm reminded of the remark that, "That is not only not right; it is not even wrong."  Regardless, I'm not feeling particularly well, so I'm going to defer a longer response to another time.  I would only comment that in your rush to refute my position, you failed to first acquire an adequate grasp of what I was saying.

---

Thank you for your response.

...Or maybe your view of Christianity is wrong, and you are trying to understand what I said through your view or rather what you think I should have said to you filtered through your lens of a 'moral God'/what makes this god's morality better than anyone else..

When in truth morality, right/wrong has nothing to do with God, as God does not hold us to a standard of 'morality' to judge us worthy. He hold Christ to that standard as we put on Christ's righteousness in place of our own.

Your whole God view is based on a jeudeo/catholic understanding of a works/Deeds based God. Where obedience and works yield righteousness. Again not the case. If you understood this to be not the case you would not have sought to rectify the morality of God over that of any other standard. As God's law/morality only serves one purpose, and that is to point out sin in the unrepentant, and to judge them. Once one repents the law becomes moot to us as t is moot to Christ.

Drich

I was responding to Jörmungandr When I made my statement. It is important to keep the commandments:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)


13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.  

(New Testament | John 14:15)


15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16 - 20)


16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

[Angrboda]

You didn't understand the unabridged version, so I strongly doubt you would understand a condensed version.  With regard to your objections, I'm reminded of the remark that, "That is not only not right; it is not even wrong."  Regardless, I'm not feeling particularly well, so I'm going to defer a longer response to another time.  I would only comment that in your rush to refute my position, you failed to first acquire an adequate grasp of what I was saying.

...Or maybe your view of Christianity is wrong, and you are trying to understand what I said through your view or rather what you think I should have said to you filtered through your lens of a 'moral God'/what makes this god's morality better than anyone else..

When in truth morality, right/wrong has nothing to do with God, as God does not hold us to a standard of 'morality' to judge us worthy. He hold Christ to that standard as we put on Christ's righteousness in place of our own.

Your whole God view is based on a jeudeo/catholic understanding of a works/Deeds based God. Where obedience and works yield righteousness. Again not the case. If you understood this to be not the case you would not have sought to rectify the morality of God over that of any other standard. As God's law/morality only serves one purpose, and that is to point out sin in the unrepentant, and to judge them. Once one repents the law becomes moot to us as t is moot to Christ.

The points I was making are unrelated to the themes you are focusing on. That's how I know you didn't understand what I wrote.

[The Grand Nudger]

Gods morality, in the description above, doesn't appear to be a system of morality at all.  Just a shitlist.  We don't need morality to come up with shitlists.

[Drich]

...Or maybe your view of Christianity is wrong, and you are trying to understand what I said through your view or rather what you think I should have said to you filtered through your lens of a 'moral God'/what makes this god's morality better than anyone else..

When in truth morality, right/wrong has nothing to do with God, as God does not hold us to a standard of 'morality' to judge us worthy. He hold Christ to that standard as we put on Christ's righteousness in place of our own.

Your whole God view is based on a jeudeo/catholic understanding of a works/Deeds based God. Where obedience and works yield righteousness. Again not the case. If you understood this to be not the case you would not have sought to rectify the morality of God over that of any other standard. As God's law/morality only serves one purpose, and that is to point out sin in the unrepentant, and to judge them. Once one repents the law becomes moot to us as t is moot to Christ.

The points I was making are unrelated to the themes you are focusing on.  That's how I know you didn't understand what I wrote.

Then perhaps you could dumb down your situation, So I may be able to comprehend.

---

...Or maybe your view of Christianity is wrong, and you are trying to understand what I said through your view or rather what you think I should have said to you filtered through your lens of a 'moral God'/what makes this god's morality better than anyone else..

When in truth morality, right/wrong has nothing to do with God, as God does not hold us to a standard of 'morality' to judge us worthy. He hold Christ to that standard as we put on Christ's righteousness in place of our own.

Your whole God view is based on a jeudeo/catholic understanding of a works/Deeds based God. Where obedience and works yield righteousness. Again not the case. If you understood this to be not the case you would not have sought to rectify the morality of God over that of any other standard. As God's law/morality only serves one purpose, and that is to point out sin in the unrepentant, and to judge them. Once one repents the law becomes moot to us as t is moot to Christ.

Drich

I was responding to Jörmungandr When I made my statement. It is important to keep the commandments:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)


13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.  

(New Testament | John 14:15)


15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16 - 20)


16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I didn't say they weren't important. I said they are no longer the measure of righteousness before God. In that we are not judged worthy or guilty by our adherence to the commandments but rather it is a measure in which we show appreciation or love for being offered atonement.

Do you understand we are not being Judged as 'Christians' but Christ we have retained in us who is judged righteously? That not one of use could stand righteously no matter how good we think ourselves to be?

When I was speaking to Jeorgie I was trying to help her understand the difference from pop Christianity which is an amalgamation of OT Judaism and NT Catholicism where even after the reformation we have people trading good deeds for 'heaven points' to be redeemed at judgement or in wishing ceremonies. Whether she'll ever see or even admit it or not her issue stems from a catholic understanding of God. Which at best is broken. My words were meant to help separate the religious understanding most of us have and compare it not to just a few select verses as you did, but with chapters and books rather than verse scraps crammed together with other scraps.

After all what gives a more complete picture of God 10 verse scraps from 10 different points in the bible or say what a whole book has to say on the subject matter? If one is seeking to worship the God of the bible one must put down the denominational verse scraps that define each version of Christianity, and seek out the broader pictures defined by whole chapters and then reconcile the two if the appose each other.

[The Grand Nudger]

Sycophancy trumps morality every time, amiright?  

[c172]

Got bored with Legos, Capsela, and those steel Nylint tractor-trailer models.

[He lives]

The points I was making are unrelated to the themes you are focusing on.  That's how I know you didn't understand what I wrote.

Then perhaps you could dumb down your situation, So I may be able to comprehend.

---

Drich

I was responding to Jörmungandr When I made my statement. It is important to keep the commandments:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)


13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.  

(New Testament | John 14:15)


15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | Matthew 5:16 - 20)


16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I didn't say they weren't important. I said they are no longer the measure of righteousness before God. In that we are not judged worthy or guilty by our adherence to the commandments but rather it is a measure in which we show appreciation or love for being offered atonement.

Do you understand we are not being Judged as 'Christians' but Christ we have retained in us who is judged righteously? That not one of use could stand righteously no matter how good we think ourselves to be?

When I was speaking to Jeorgie I was trying to help her understand the difference from pop Christianity which is an amalgamation of OT Judaism and NT Catholicism where even after the reformation we have people trading good deeds for 'heaven points' to be redeemed at judgement or in wishing ceremonies. Whether she'll ever see or even admit it or not her issue stems from a catholic understanding of God. Which at best is broken. My words were meant to help separate the religious understanding most of us have and compare it not to just a few select verses as you did, but with chapters and books rather than verse scraps crammed together with other scraps.

After all what gives a more complete picture of God 10 verse scraps from 10 different points in the bible or say what a whole book has to say on the subject matter? If one is seeking to worship the God of the bible one must put down the denominational verse scraps that define each version of Christianity, and seek out the broader pictures defined by whole chapters and then reconcile the two if the appose each other.

I don't subscribe to doing deeds to look good in the eyes of men, but I do subscribe in doing good deeds to glorify God. If we have the opportunity to help someone and we don't do it, it is sin. Jesus Christ did take upon himself the sins of the sinner, but he expects the sinner to sin no more. Thank you for defending God.