The problem with prayer

[Darwinian]

The problem with prayer as I see it is that you are basically asking God to do something for you that he wasn't already planning to do. Otherwise there would be very little point.

This would be fine if..

1. God existed.
2. He wasn't omniscient.
3. And he was powerful enough to grant your wish.
   

However, every Christian I have tackled about this tells me that God is all powerful (omnipotent) and all seeing (omniscient). If that is the case then God already knows the outcome of every possible event that has, will or can ever take place.

What then is the point of prayer because what ever happens was going to happen anyway and not even God could change that because of the obvious paradox of being omnipotent and omniscient at the same time.

[Kyuuketsuki]

IOW "God" has limits ... not much of a f***ing god then is it? ROFLMAO

Kyu

[puglover]

yeah i had thought that before aswell once.

maybe its kinda like how a funeral isn't really for the dead but for those left behind to help grieve.

i pray even though i dont believe in the stupid shit. its my private business though and for the most part the world dont know about it.. only this forum really lol. it makes me feel better.
although, praying isn't as cool any more.. i tend to write diaries now and it has the same effect and it is a lot less lame compared to praying to nobody.

[Dotard]

If talking to the air makes the pray-er feel better, if it floats their boat, let them.

If I you invite me to participate and I decline, let me.

[puglover]

Nah I'd never invite somebody to participate.
I'd suggest they keep a journal instead.
And plus I haven't prayed to my no god in about 6-7 months now..
and i think im just sticking with the journal for good really.

[leo-rcc]

To steal an example.

Praying to help find your carkeys often works.

You can find your keys, you get stressed, you start praying, you relax, your mind clears, and you remember where your keys are.

Praying when you are stuck in a well or mine helps.

You pray, you relax, your oxygen use slows down, you live longer for the rescue workers to help out.

These kinds of prayer have beneficial properties, but based on a naturalistic explanation.

Here is what I have a problem with:

Children in countries like Sierra Leone where the vast majority is Muslim or Christian, infant mortality rates are soaring. And I am betting all my money that the mothers of these children pray till their knees are bloody with the most sincere and honoust prayer in the world.

If prayer really helped in these cases, in the midst of all these third world countries where infant mortality are high, some pockets of better success rates should exist where a certain denomination or certain religion rules and medicine is just as scarce as in the other parts of the third world countries. I have never heard of one such instance.

[CoxRox]

I found it comforting that God does know what we are going to pray for:

Jesus (allegedly) said: ''Your Father already knows what you need before you ask him.'' Matt6:7.

Maybe prayer has beneficial physical effects as Leo has noted, as well as spiritual :focusing your attention on God and problems you may have or just to say thanks for something.

[Eilonnwy]

Prayer is dumb. What it actually shows is the arrogance of religious believers that some all powerful creator god cares about them to meddle in their everyday life.

It's also an effortless way for people to pretend they're doing something to help you, when really they not.

[CoxRox]

(5th January 2009 15:29)Eilonnwy Wrote:  Prayer is dumb. What it actually shows is the arrogance of religious believers that some all powerful creator god cares about them to meddle in their everyday life.

It's also an effortless way for people to pretend they're doing something to help you, when really they not.

I think you are the arrogant one in presuming you 'know' about people who pray. It is not arrogant to pray, maybe silly from non believers' points of view,which I understand. As for those who may 'pretend' to pray and be doing something for you I'm sure there are dishonest people who pretend to be believers for material gains. People like FutureandaHope on the other hand, are sincere (even if misguided). I would thank someone if they prayed for me. They spent some of their time on me. A very unselfish thing in my opinion.

[chatpilot]

I actually had a thread entitled the innefficacy of prayer.I too believe that prayer to a certain degree is arrogant.But this depends on what you are praying for.As if God does not have enough on his hands managing the universe and trying to execute his predestined plan.

Christianity does nothing more than boost a persons ego by making them think that they are very important in the eyes of God and that they can have a very personal relationship with him/her/or it.It gives them that false sense of purpose in this our vast universe.Prayer is really nothing more than a form of meditation.You can recieve great results to many situations that seem helpless by just meditating on the problem.Self-reflection and a calm mind can work wonders.Talking to the air is useless and the results are not in the hands of God but in the hands of chance and coincidence.And lets not forget the false security that prayer provides.Leaving matters in the hands of God is foolish.I dont see any difference with a schizophrenic talking to the voices in his head and a person talking to an invisible man in the sky.