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Consciousness
#1
Consciousness
I am new here. However, I have read through many threads and through most of the sections of this board.

I see many common arguments by religion believers. However, how should atheists counter this:

Explain to me consciousness. What on earth are the things I see and sense, if there is no soul.
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#2
RE: Consciousness
(January 7, 2009 at 2:02 pm)Ephrium Wrote: I am new here. However, I have read through many threads and through most of the sections of this board.

I see many common arguments by religion believers. However, how should atheists counter this:

Explain to me consciousness. What on earth are the things I see and sense, if there is no soul.

Ephrium, welcome to the forum. I hope you don't mind me answering you, as I'm not an atheist. I don't believe in a 'soul'. I believe I'm 100 % flesh and blood with the spirit (life force like electricity maybe) in me. I do not see any mystery to consciousness- it is the brain receiving information via nerves etc. Someone else will have a much better explanation. Smile
"The eternal mystery of the world is its comprehensibility"

Albert Einstein
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#3
RE: Consciousness
Explain consciousness? Wow, that's a bigeee.

Unlike CR here I'm not so sure that it is simply a product of the brain. To me it is more likely that the brain hosts the consciousness rather than creates it.

To be honest, no-one really knows what it is. If indeed it is anything at all.

CR says that it is the brain receiving information, but the brain then selects certain information and passes that on to 'me'. So, what part of my brain is me and what isn't. Where exactly am 'I' located?

An organism does not need consciousness in order to be a success. I'm sure that given time we could create an artificial mind that could behave in a very similar way to ours. But would it be self aware? How would we ever know?

I have a sneaking suspicion that consciousness is all that really exists and may well be the root of everything else. After all, the only thing in life that you can ever really know with 100% certainty is that 'you' exist as a self aware entity.

Just a theory...
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#4
RE: Consciousness
Quote:What on earth are the things I see and sense, if there is no soul.

Lots of christians believe that every human has a soul, therefore they're against stem cells research since there's a soul in each stem cell (which later give a human being). But we know the stem cell divides itself, and sometimes gives 2 separate stem cells (giving twins), and I guess we can't talk about souls which can be divided in multiple souls, right ? That's why the idea of soul for human beings isn't logical.
Maybe parents buy their kids some shiny new souls after their birth Tongue .
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#5
RE: Consciousness
(January 7, 2009 at 2:02 pm)Ephrium Wrote: Explain to me consciousness. What on earth are the things I see and sense, if there is no soul.


The things that you see and sense are what's there in reality, essentially. Perceived through senses that are interpretted in the brain. So to me that question is silly, because what you see and sense usually is not what people refer to when they say you have a consciousness or a soul.

What they usually mean is you have something beyond the body that exists after death and/or also makes you self aware and causes you to feel and have morality.

My cat can see and sense things, but she's not self aware in the sense that human's are. Many would argue she has a soul and others would argue she doesn't.

Consciousness is a tricky question becuase you have to sort of define the word before you can have a meaningful conversation about it.

But at the end of the day, there is nothing scientifically substiating the idea that there is something more than the brain. The more we learn the more we can see how the brain not only sees and smells, but also control feelings through chemicals that we tend to attirubute to the soul.
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." Benjamin Franklin

::Blogs:: Boston Atheism Examiner - Boston Atheists Blog | :Tongueodcast:: Boston Atheists Report
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#6
RE: Consciousness
I have read a lengthy article about that consciousness does not exist. But it did not really explain it. Basically what it explains was, when you try to find it, you cannot find anything.

That though, steps side the main question, like what on earth then are the table I see in front of me, what on earth then are my thoughts.

And regarding the stem cell, They dont view it as dividing into two if the two are still together. The 'soul' has just expanded.


"there is nothing scientifically substiating the idea that there is something more than the brain"
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#7
RE: Consciousness
Define conciousness. From what I gather you are talking about being self aware but, what part of you are you reffering too? Why do your thoughts have to be anything supernatural?

You can't go into the mind of another person but, we know what certain thoughts and memoeries are electrical patters in the brain. I even reall something about this woman that had sesures when she smelled burnt toast, the identified the part of hte brain and removed it (I am mostly certain they removed it) to solve her problem.

Thought is just another way to interpret our electronic signals, just like we do not really see. We receive and interpret electrical signals from the eyes and our brain fills in the rest by itself.

Many groups beleive animals have souls, many do not. If nothing else though, they definately have a level of conciousness. Put in the exact same situation 10 times they will not likely do the exact same thing all 10 times so they must be able to think. We are simply aware of things at a bigger scale than they are so it is no surprise that our brain is a few times bigger.

Does that help a bit?

Oh and fyi if it helps, I am not really against the idea of a soul or even 100% against an afterlife (I am however almost certain there is no god-driven anything). I just think that it is FAR to early in our study of the brain and how thought reall works to start giving the answer to the supernatural.
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#8
RE: Consciousness
(January 7, 2009 at 2:02 pm)Ephrium Wrote: I am new here. However, I have read through many threads and through most of the sections of this board.

I see many common arguments by religion believers. However, how should atheists counter this:

Explain to me consciousness. What on earth are the things I see and sense, if there is no soul.
The trouble is *no one* can explain conciousness (yet), the various religions has suggested a "soul" as an explanation but since it is undetectable/unprovable it is just that, a suggestion, not an explanation.

The various parts of the brain responding to the input of the senses and producing "what if" responses in other parts would explain most of what goes on in my self...
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#9
RE: Consciousness
Agreed, allan, demon.

I don't know why conciousness, or self-awareness, could not simply be part and parcel with the brain? It seems to me like this is giving too much credit to consciousness- we are not the only animals with it, or at least self-awareness and the concept of "other."
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#10
RE: Consciousness
Read Daniel Dennett's "freedom evolves" if you want to know how consciousness / free will could evolve
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