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What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
#1
What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
Let's say I come and say:

Quote:There are 12 gods that created the universe with the earth as it is and with all its beings, along with us. They have afterwards gone to another world, through a portal. Now one of them returned and told me the truth and told me to tell everyone that there are actually 12 gods and many other things about how things really are. I tell you these things, and they have logic, do not contradict modern science, etc. And then I tell you that if you don't believe what I've told you, then you will be punished by the gods after death.

I'm sure that none of you would believe me. So the question is: what are the reasons you don't?

I know a few reasons, but I am curios about your opinions.
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#2
RE: What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
I'm assuming this is a question mainly directed at theists, because there is just as much as evidence for your theory as there is for their beliefs, NONE.

Theists will be dismissing your theory and would hopefully understand it is something you just made up; so why is it so hard to understand for a vast amount of theists (if not all) that the same reason they dismiss your theory is the same reason we dismiss their fairy tales?

As Richard Dawkins quoted: "We are all atheists about most of the gods humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." The moment you understand why you don't believe in the majority of gods humanity has come up with (Zeus, Thor, Athena, Poseidon, etc), then you will undertand why we dismiss yours.

But to answer your question, the reason why I don't believe in your theory is very simple and mentioned countless times in this forum. You present no evidence to your claim other than "the gods told me", which isn't evidence at all. The same can be said for any other religion humanity has invented.
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

Atheist I Evolved!
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#3
RE: What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
(March 11, 2011 at 9:27 pm)Zenith Wrote: Let's say I come and say:

Quote:There are 12 gods that created the universe with the earth as it is and with all its beings, along with us. They have afterwards gone to another world, through a portal. Now one of them returned and told me the truth and told me to tell everyone that there are actually 12 gods and many other things about how things really are. I tell you these things, and they have logic, do not contradict modern science, etc. And then I tell you that if you don't believe what I've told you, then you will be punished by the gods after death.

I'm sure that none of you would believe me. So the question is: what are the reasons you don't?

I know a few reasons, but I am curios about your opinions.

For a start, I could not possibly believe that the Universe and Earth were "created" by anything other than natural occurrences.

Next, which version of humans was created by the "gods"? Did they keep creating or has everything evolved since the gods created earth?

Or, did the gods merely place the first single life cell on earth and everything has evolved since then, seeing that all life forms on this planet have a common DNA link?

If there were gods, they would tell everyone that they exist, not one person or a small group of people.

I can think of not a single reason why gods would punish people who didn't believe that they existed. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I would be dead anyway, so how could I be punished?

It's all a load of nonsense. Sorry.



There are many intelligent Christians, no doubt, but an "intellectual Christian", is surely an oxymoron.
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#4
RE: What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
Quote:I'm sure that none of you would believe me. So the question is: what are the reasons you don't?

Lack of evidence.


(March 12, 2011 at 12:34 am)ozgoat Wrote: I can think of not a single reason why gods would punish people who didn't believe that they existed. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

But god moves in mysterious ways, don't you know that? Wink
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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#5
RE: What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
(March 12, 2011 at 12:34 am)ozgoat Wrote: For a start, I could not possibly believe that the Universe and Earth were "created" by anything other than natural occurrences.

ok, that's an argument. Though it has no justification (proof/evidence to do that). And if the natural occurrences started afterwards, perhaps this would be an argument no more.

Quote:Next, which version of humans was created by the "gods"? Did they keep creating or has everything evolved since the gods created earth?

Or, did the gods merely place the first single life cell on earth and everything has evolved since then, seeing that all life forms on this planet have a common DNA link?
Well, this goes in logic + modern science, which I said there would be explanations that would not contradict them. Just assume they're ok, because I don't want to use my imagination further, and it doesn't do anything if I do that.

Quote:If there were gods, they would tell everyone that they exist, not one person or a small group of people.
That sounds as an argument... Though unjustifiable - i.e. why??

Quote:I can think of not a single reason why gods would punish people who didn't believe that they existed. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I would be dead anyway, so how could I be punished?
Well, even in pagan religions before Christianity there was the idea of punishment and reward after death. So if pagan religions before Christianity believed in afterlife, then why is it wrong for my theory with gods to support afterlife??

Quote:It's all a load of nonsense. Sorry.
I know the theory is a lot of nonsense. But though it is not believed, there are lots of nonsense theories out there that are believed. Imagine the relatively new religion wicca: how would you see a man that is standing beside you and is bowing down and worshiping the image of this god and asking him for his help? Now, I don't think my theory is worse than that! So, why do people believe wicca?? Is my theory more unbelievable than that??

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#6
RE: What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
Quote:what are the reasons you don't?
Same reason I don't believe in any kind of god. No evidence, no credibility and is an extremely high improbability. Perfectly good reasons to reject it.Big Grin
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan

Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.

Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.

You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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#7
RE: What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
ok, perhaps this would make the answers more diversed:
why do you think other people (not necessarily atheists) do not believe my theory?
if there are reasons a man would come to believe in wicca, what reasons would there be not to believe my theory?

e.g. non-atheists don't necessarily look for scientific evidence.
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#8
RE: What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
(March 11, 2011 at 9:27 pm)Zenith Wrote:


I know you were dying for a theist bite, and I have enough energy for a reply.
I wouldn't preculde that it was necessarily false as it is unfalsifiable. However you are not recollecting an experience, merely reiterating what this other God told you. Did you see him coming from a portal? Could we actually detect and measure this portal? Do you have subjective evidence (since that would be the most you have) that it is both productive and harmonious with the information presented that what you were told was true? Is the only potential for productive usefulness of believing postmortem?

"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post

always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
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#9
RE: What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
tackattack Wrote:Did you see him coming from a portal? Could we actually detect and measure this portal?
well, the theory would be that the portal has been opened when they decided to go (after the universe has been set in motion, perhaps just after the evolution process has began) and closed just after they passed through it. When this particular god has come, a portal has been opened far in the universe, so it could have not been detected and closed just after this god entered our world. Some time after this event, he has appeared in front of me, and told me these things.

Quote:Do you have subjective evidence (since that would be the most you have) that it is both productive and harmonious with the information presented that what you were told was true? Is the only potential for productive usefulness of believing postmortem?
that would require me to imagine a lot of things to be productive, etc. It's pretty hard to understand what you mean by "evidence ... that it is ... harmonious with the information presented that what you were told was true?" - as a matter of fact, I cannot understand this sentence. The same with this question: "Is the only potential for productive usefulness of believing postmortem?".

The premise is that the theory is logical, accords with modern science. Also, as every religion has benefits of believing it, many or all of which cannot be tested (the gods will protect you if you worship them faithfully) or cannot be tested before converting, and a very desirable paradise is prepared for the people that faithfully serve the gods.
(March 12, 2011 at 8:30 am)Ace Otana Wrote:
Quote:what are the reasons you don't?
Same reason I don't believe in any kind of god. No evidence, no credibility and is an extremely high improbability. Perfectly good reasons to reject it.Big Grin

By the way, just curios... what evidence would you expect in order to believe this theory? Would you need to see the god too? Would you need to see some supernatural phenomena in order to believe (e.g. to see me doing something naturally impossible, special effects, perhaps foretell future, etc.)? Or what exactly is that evidence you expect?
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#10
RE: What are the reasons you don't believe this theory?
(March 12, 2011 at 8:26 am)Zenith Wrote:
Quote:If there were gods, they would tell everyone that they exist, not one person or a small group of people.
That sounds as an argument... Though unjustifiable - i.e. why??

We'll assume that all gods work in mysterious ways. Take old Yahweh, the Christian god. All-knowing, all-seeing, omni-present. Why did Yahweh not let every human know of his existence 100,000 years ago instead of waiting until 2500 years ago and then just revealing himself to a handful of desert nomads? Surely he could have shouted it out to the whole world? If he'd been a bit smarter then he'd have more than 25% of the World's population believing in him.

It would be like the CEO of Ford Motor Company getting 12 of his managers together and announcing that they have an amazing new automobile, but to save money, only the 12 managers know and have to go forth and tell people in person about the new vehicle. It would take a thousand years before the whole World knew about the new vehicle! Theoretically speaking, of course! No allowance made for modern communication methods.

Quote:I can think of not a single reason why gods would punish people who didn't believe that they existed. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I would be dead anyway, so how could I be punished?

Well, even in pagan religions before Christianity there was the idea of punishment and reward after death. So if pagan religions before Christianity believed in afterlife, then why is it wrong for my theory with gods to support afterlife??

Religions believing in something doesn't create fact and beyond being a control system, there's no justification in a god punishing people just because they don't believe he exists. It would be like punishing my children because they don't believe I'm their father. I'd just say "tough", believe what you want, it doesn't bother me".



There are many intelligent Christians, no doubt, but an "intellectual Christian", is surely an oxymoron.
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