The Devil just needs a character rewrite

[Nachos_of_Nurgle]

The concept of the Devil as portrayed in mainstream tradition presents continuity problems for the Biblical Fictional Universe (BFU)

The Devil is portrayed as the enemy of God and enemy of God’s followers. Yet he seems to be doing important work on God’s behalf. He provides mortals with fear-based incentive to seek God. He also enforces afterlife justice according to God’s judgment, providing punishment in Hell only to deserving people. If the Devil was wholly evil he would only hurt forgiven people. Or he would go against God’s rules and hurt people in heaven.

God could presumably destroy the Devil or take away the Devil’s powers at any moment. Yet he declines to do so. God has no problem taking away the abilities of other free-willed beings. For example, if God can take away a child’s ability to walk, God could just as easily take away the Devil’s ability to teleport or answer prayers. Until this happens, it seems reasonable to conclude God supports or at least condones the Devil’s continued efforts.

The Devil also conflicts with monotheism. Bible believers generally claim only one god exists in the universe. But the Devil has properties of a polytheistic god. Here are some of the Devil’s abilities according to tradition:

• Immortal, unkillable, no need to eat, sleep, breathe
  
• Can move between dimensions, not bound by time/space
  
• Can instantly teleport to any location and/or act remotely
  
• Can read the minds of billions of people simultaneously
  
• Can reshape reality at will to cause misfortune
  
• Can grant wishes to worshippers
  

In other religions this being would count as a god, but monotheists say no. He is on the council but he’s not granted the rank of master. The Devil either needs a reduction in powers or the Bible needs to admit it’s polytheistic. Or else reduce God's powers so the Devil becomes a credible threat.

Anyway, this Biblical Fictional Universe is never going anywhere until these plot holes are fixed. Get this to Zack Snyder for a rewrite asap.

[Brian37]

The concept of the Devil as portrayed in mainstream tradition presents continuity problems for the Biblical Fictional Universe (BFU)

The Devil is portrayed as the enemy of God and enemy of God’s followers. Yet he seems to be doing important work on God’s behalf. He provides mortals with fear-based incentive to seek God. He also enforces afterlife justice according to God’s judgment, providing punishment in Hell only to deserving people. If the Devil was wholly evil he would only hurt forgiven people. Or he would go against God’s rules and hurt people in heaven.

God could presumably destroy the Devil or take away the Devil’s powers at any moment. Yet he declines to do so. God has no problem taking away the abilities of other free-willed beings. For example, if God can take away a child’s ability to walk, God could just as easily take away the Devil’s ability to teleport or answer prayers. Until this happens, it seems reasonable to conclude God supports or at least condones the Devil’s continued efforts.

The Devil also conflicts with monotheism. Bible believers generally claim only one god exists in the universe. But the Devil has properties of a polytheistic god. Here are some of the Devil’s abilities according to tradition:

• Immortal, unkillable, no need to eat, sleep, breathe
  
• Can move between dimensions, not bound by time/space
  
• Can instantly teleport to any location and/or act remotely
  
• Can read the minds of billions of people simultaneously
  
• Can reshape reality at will to cause misfortune
  
• Can grant wishes to worshippers
  

In other religions this being would count as a god, but monotheists say no. He is on the council but he’s not granted the rank of master. The Devil either needs a reduction in powers or the Bible needs to admit it’s polytheistic. Or else reduce God's powers so the Devil becomes a credible threat.

Anyway, this Biblical Fictional Universe is never going anywhere until these plot holes are fixed. Get this to Zack Snyder for a rewrite asap.

Even outside the bible, in general entertainment, be it movies, or TV shows or comic books. Even in ancient Greek and Roman plays, you cannot have drama without a good guy vs a bad guy.

The bible is simply drama at a political level with far more deadly tribalism. But the same can be said for every religion.

Humans are tribal, and we always look for an imaginary enemy to justify our own control.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

The concept of the Devil as portrayed in mainstream tradition presents continuity problems for the Biblical Fictional Universe (BFU)

The Devil is portrayed as the enemy of God and enemy of God’s followers. Yet he seems to be doing important work on God’s behalf. He provides mortals with fear-based incentive to seek God. He also enforces afterlife justice according to God’s judgment, providing punishment in Hell only to deserving people. If the Devil was wholly evil he would only hurt forgiven people. Or he would go against God’s rules and hurt people in heaven.

God could presumably destroy the Devil or take away the Devil’s powers at any moment. Yet he declines to do so. God has no problem taking away the abilities of other free-willed beings. For example, if God can take away a child’s ability to walk, God could just as easily take away the Devil’s ability to teleport or answer prayers. Until this happens, it seems reasonable to conclude God supports or at least condones the Devil’s continued efforts.

The Devil also conflicts with monotheism. Bible believers generally claim only one god exists in the universe. But the Devil has properties of a polytheistic god. Here are some of the Devil’s abilities according to tradition:

• Immortal, unkillable, no need to eat, sleep, breathe
  
• Can move between dimensions, not bound by time/space
  
• Can instantly teleport to any location and/or act remotely
  
• Can read the minds of billions of people simultaneously
  
• Can reshape reality at will to cause misfortune
  
• Can grant wishes to worshippers
  

In other religions this being would count as a god, but monotheists say no. He is on the council but he’s not granted the rank of master. The Devil either needs a reduction in powers or the Bible needs to admit it’s polytheistic. Or else reduce God's powers so the Devil becomes a credible threat.

Anyway, this Biblical Fictional Universe is never going anywhere until these plot holes are fixed. Get this to Zack Snyder for a rewrite asap.

Even outside the bible, in general entertainment, be it movies, or TV shows or comic books. Even in ancient Greek and Roman plays, you cannot have drama without a good guy vs a bad guy.

The bible is simply drama at a political level with far more deadly tribalism. But the same can be said for every religion.

Humans are tribal, and we always look for an imaginary enemy to justify our own control.

*drink*

Boru

[Belacqua]

The concept of the Devil as portrayed in mainstream tradition presents continuity problems for the Biblical Fictional Universe (BFU)

The Devil is portrayed as the enemy of God and enemy of God’s followers. Yet he seems to be doing important work on God’s behalf. He provides mortals with fear-based incentive to seek God. He also enforces afterlife justice according to God’s judgment, providing punishment in Hell only to deserving people. If the Devil was wholly evil he would only hurt forgiven people. Or he would go against God’s rules and hurt people in heaven.

God could presumably destroy the Devil or take away the Devil’s powers at any moment. Yet he declines to do so. God has no problem taking away the abilities of other free-willed beings. For example, if God can take away a child’s ability to walk, God could just as easily take away the Devil’s ability to teleport or answer prayers. Until this happens, it seems reasonable to conclude God supports or at least condones the Devil’s continued efforts.

The Devil also conflicts with monotheism. Bible believers generally claim only one god exists in the universe. But the Devil has properties of a polytheistic god. Here are some of the Devil’s abilities according to tradition:

• Immortal, unkillable, no need to eat, sleep, breathe
  
• Can move between dimensions, not bound by time/space
  
• Can instantly teleport to any location and/or act remotely
  
• Can read the minds of billions of people simultaneously
  
• Can reshape reality at will to cause misfortune
  
• Can grant wishes to worshippers
  

In other religions this being would count as a god, but monotheists say no. He is on the council but he’s not granted the rank of master. The Devil either needs a reduction in powers or the Bible needs to admit it’s polytheistic. Or else reduce God's powers so the Devil becomes a credible threat.

Anyway, this Biblical Fictional Universe is never going anywhere until these plot holes are fixed. Get this to Zack Snyder for a rewrite asap.

Where did you get your picture of the devil from? It sounds more like pop culture than theology.

Dante is closer to Christian theology, but writing symbolically. Milton and Goethe don't claim they're telling the truth -- it's fiction to think about morality.

[brewer]

Needs a name change to Louis Cyphre.

That about the extent of my interest.

[Ferrocyanide]

God could presumably destroy the Devil or take away the Devil’s powers at any moment. Yet he declines to do so.

A christian would just respond “I don’t know why the jewish god has chosen to let the devil exist but it is part of the jewish god’s master plan.” or he would say “The jewish god allows negative things to happen to people so that we would understand that we need the jewish god.”

Also, the devil has evolved.
If you want, you can watch this:
It is a long documentary but worth watching.
Source:
History of the devil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIN6NnxPsuQ
By My Weird Universe
Length = 51:28

There is also that part about the clever snake in Genesis. What’s the deal with that?
Some christians think that is the devil but the Bible says it is just a regular snake except he is clever.

[Fake Messiah]

The Devil just needs a character rewrite

The whole Bible needs a rewrite.

The Devil also conflicts with monotheism. Bible believers generally claim only one god exists in the universe. But the Devil has properties of a polytheistic god.

That's why Christianity is Henotheism and not monotheism.

[Nachos_of_Nurgle]

The concept of the Devil as portrayed in mainstream tradition presents continuity problems for the Biblical Fictional Universe (BFU)

The Devil is portrayed as the enemy of God and enemy of God’s followers. Yet he seems to be doing important work on God’s behalf. He provides mortals with fear-based incentive to seek God. He also enforces afterlife justice according to God’s judgment, providing punishment in Hell only to deserving people. If the Devil was wholly evil he would only hurt forgiven people. Or he would go against God’s rules and hurt people in heaven.

God could presumably destroy the Devil or take away the Devil’s powers at any moment. Yet he declines to do so. God has no problem taking away the abilities of other free-willed beings. For example, if God can take away a child’s ability to walk, God could just as easily take away the Devil’s ability to teleport or answer prayers. Until this happens, it seems reasonable to conclude God supports or at least condones the Devil’s continued efforts.

The Devil also conflicts with monotheism. Bible believers generally claim only one god exists in the universe. But the Devil has properties of a polytheistic god. Here are some of the Devil’s abilities according to tradition:

• Immortal, unkillable, no need to eat, sleep, breathe
  
• Can move between dimensions, not bound by time/space
  
• Can instantly teleport to any location and/or act remotely
  
• Can read the minds of billions of people simultaneously
  
• Can reshape reality at will to cause misfortune
  
• Can grant wishes to worshippers
  

In other religions this being would count as a god, but monotheists say no. He is on the council but he’s not granted the rank of master. The Devil either needs a reduction in powers or the Bible needs to admit it’s polytheistic. Or else reduce God's powers so the Devil becomes a credible threat.

Anyway, this Biblical Fictional Universe is never going anywhere until these plot holes are fixed. Get this to Zack Snyder for a rewrite asap.

Where did you get your picture of the devil from? It sounds more like pop culture than theology.

Dante is closer to Christian theology, but writing symbolically. Milton and Goethe don't claim they're telling the truth -- it's fiction to think about morality.

Sure, this is describing the pop culture / traditional version, but I think that is what a lot of casual Bible fans really do believe. Is there any way to verify which version is the correct one?

This is not a rhetorical question! For example, how could you demonstrate the correct version to Christians in Ghana who believe witches should be killed because they genuinely summon the Devil? I thought this was an interesting problem so I will paste this text from my Google search - 

"More than 90 percent of Ghanaian Christians believe witchcraft is a problem in the country, and more than half have visited a Pentecostal prayer camp to ask for deliverance from witches and demons, according to a study by Opoku Onyinah, theologian and past president of the Ghana Pentecostal and Charismatic Council (GPCC). The Spirit-empowered churches in the West African country don’t take the issue of witches lightly.

But this summer, the GPCC decided to speak up for the women who are accused of witchcraft. The Pentecostal group, an umbrella organization of 200 denominations and parachurches, called for new laws and a national conversation about how to better take care of the more than 2,000 widows who have been exiled over allegations of working with demons.

The churches decided to make a statement after an elderly Muslim woman in a rural village was beaten to death when she refused to confess to witchcraft. Akua Denteh was accused of causing irregular rain, starting fires, and killing children with supernatural powers. A video of her violent death—as a crowd stood watching—was shared widely around the country, and Christian leaders decided they could no longer be silent."

Here's the full article https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/202...tches.html

[Disagreeable]

My guess is that under Abrahamic monotheism having even all the traits of God missing one trait is not enough if the one trait that is missing is creating the universe. Little g gods don't count under monotheism. And the only big G God is the creator of the universe. I think that that is how it works but I could be wrong.

Or perhaps it's just that you need all four OOOOs to count as the big G, any other god, little G, doesn't count as a 'true God' and doesn't thus doesn't count as non-monotheism.

The four OOOOs being, of course, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence and omnibenevolence. All true Gods, under Abrahamic monotheism, I would say, are OOOO, or Q-O (Quad-O)Gods. What d'y' reckon?

[Belacqua]

Little g gods don't count under monotheism. And the only big G God is the creator of the universe. I think that that is how it works but I could be wrong.

I'm pretty sure this is right.

In monotheism, by definition, there is only one creator, one ground of being, one actus purus. Some Christians believe[d] in different levels of beings on levels between humans and God -- angels, daemons, fallen angels, etc. But these are still infinitely lower than the one God. 

It's a little confusing because the group of beliefs we call "Hindu" has a similar organization. The Brahman is the one creator ground of being, but the lower level individuals like Shiva are called "gods" in English.

---

Is there any way to verify which version is the correct one?

Personally I don't think there is a correct version. There is no devil.

When used as a character, there are more intelligent, useful, and rich versions, and stupider versions. The writers I named earlier use the figure of the devil in ways that enrich our thinking. Versions in pop culture merely reinforce our cliches, because that's pretty much all pop culture does -- repeat cliches. And that makes people stupider. 

Some new smart, creative person could give us a new take on the devil that might be very interesting to read. Is there a new Goethe out there somewhere, typing up a new book in obscurity?

As for the folk beliefs in Africa, with witches, etc. -- that's all kind of up to them. I'm not going to go do atheist missionary work in a foreign culture.