Surprise Quiz

[Rayaan]

That was a piece of cake after I quickly realzed that the students were using baseless assumptions for their conclusion "There is no quiz this week. I think the students deserved the test after that epic logical failure. Do I get a cookie for the right answer (and paradox explanation)?

Yeah, here's not one but three:

[Emporion]

That was a piece of cake after I quickly realzed that the students were using baseless assumptions for their conclusion "There is no quiz this week. I think the students deserved the test after that epic logical failure. Do I get a cookie for the right answer (and paradox explanation)?

Yeah, here's not one but three:

The value of each cookie goes down when more are added.

So I'll just accept one and you can keep the other 2 as a value judgement pertaining to one of the ways you think.

[Tiberius]

Jesus christ seriously?! - it's not even a solvable problem - it's just a silly brain teaser that a "way cool" junior-high teacher asks the 7th graders during studyhall!

From Wikipedia's page on the problem:

Even though it is apparently simple, the paradox's underlying complexities have even led to it being called a "significant problem" for philosophy.

So yeah, not just a "silly brain teaser" for 7th graders. The problem is solvable; I gave you the solution, which in this case was that the logic used by the students was correct, however they failed to spot the paradox, and thus did not answer the professors question properly (they did not tell him which day the test was on, but instead told him that there could not be a test).

Now this will be the LAST time I stop by this thread, but you can't call the "Friday Theory" perfectly logical if it's plagued with paradoxes -- that's just ridiculous.

The Friday Theory is perfectly logical. The paradox occurs when one misinterprets the Friday Theory to mean something it does not. In this case, the students took it to mean that a surprise test could not possibly happen on any day, whereas this is clearly not true; a surprise test can happen at any time. What the Friday Theory shows is that it is impossible to work out when a "surprise" test will happen, given that it goes against the very nature of the "surprise".

And since that IS the case, yes, I DID answer the question as clearly as can possibly be answered. Read your question aloud and than read my original answer. There is NO better concise answer for an unsolvable problem. What, am I having a battle of wits with an unarmed man here?! It's psuedo-intellectual. It's bull shit.

It isn't unsolvable. The question asked wasn't about the paradox itself, but about the students interpretation of the paradox. I'm sure all the philosophers who have worked on this problem will be glad to know it's psuedo-intellectual and bull shit.

Wikipedia .. REALLY?!

Believe it or not, but multiple studies have shown that Wikipedia is as accurate (and often more so) as the Encyclopedia Britannica.

[reverendjeremiah]

I still think the best answer is that the teacher is a prick for bringing it up in the first place.

[Anymouse]

The professor for class Logic 315 says on Friday: "We're going to have a surprise quiz next week, but I'm not telling you what day... if you can figure out what day it will be on, I'll cancel the quiz."

. . .

On Tuesday, the professor gives the quiz, totally unexpected!

What's the flaw in the students' thinking?

I think the real problem why it cannot be solved mathematically is it is not a mathematics question.

By creating a logical edifice which rules out all the class days, they "know" the quiz cannot be held (as it would then not be a surprise).

Thus, any day it is held makes it a surprise, because all days have been logically ruled out. (It would be a bigger surprise if he held the quiz on Saturday.) The missing step in the students' logic is: they cannot know which day the professor has picked without asking him. All the logical shenanigans in the world trying to predict the day, or rule it out, still don't produce the real answer: what day -is- the prof going to hold his quiz? He asks them a different question than they try to solve. They try to solve what day he -cannot- hold it, when he -can- hold it any day (including Saturday).

James.