Free Will Theodicy

[The Grand Nudger]

There isn't a single christian in the world who doesn't think that stringing up some jew was a good deal for them.  Food for thought.  I tend to agree, though, the only thing objectionable about most christians, is that one little issue there.  We all have our hangups.

Well Jesus was supposed to get strung up in the first place. He knew what was going to happen, and accepted it.

Sure, sure.....excuses from them, just as we're considering excuses for their god?  We could come up with a ton of excuses for failure.  The trouble, ofc, is that we need to come up with even one.  I can usually dredge up a modicum of sympathy for conflicted christians, the ones with that strange combination of a genuine faith and deep personal knowledge.  Sure, it's a drug deal - and their hoped for reward is blood money - the rank superstition the entire belief system swirls in makes them as uncomfortable as anyone else in the secularized and rational contemporary age..........but they still want it.  They want to live forever.  They want to see their loved ones again.  Who wouldn't..they very often wonder and ask.  

I get wanting something so much that whether or not it's a Good Thing™ is secondary or even irrelevant.  What I question, at that point and overall, is the relevance and validity of any supposed moral excuse.  It doesn't matter why or that good does or allows suffering.  The belief is about pie.  They want the pie.  If it takes baking up a bunch of suffering moral agents and adding a little bit of jewish spice to top it off..so be it.  That's the pie recipe....and they want pie.

[Angrboda]

According to U.S. law, you can't sell yourself into slavery as slavery is illegal regardless of your consent.  I'm sure a like principle would apply here.

What? No? This wasn't the U.S., this was thousands of years ago in a different part of the world.

Do you not understand what "a like principle" means?

[Angrboda]

Give me an age?

Well mine started when I was about 3 or 4 years old. It wouldn't be the same for every person.

Actually, yours has yet to begin. Keep hoping.

[Ahriman]

What? No? This wasn't the U.S., this was thousands of years ago in a different part of the world.

Do you not understand what "a like principle" means?

I understand what it means, but why would a like principle apply in this case?

[The Grand Nudger]

Instead of the principle of pie, for example? It might not. Honestly.... must not. At least for people who want the pie. That's the trouble.

It's why you can never really turn your back on them..and, I'd say, the full explanation for every shitty bit of theocratic politicking they get into. Nothing more complicated than that. They're people who are willing to abandon any principle they have or might have if they want the thing - and they want the thing.

[Ahriman]

Instead of the principle of pie, for example?  It might not.  Honestly.... must not.  At least for people who want the pie.  That's the trouble.

It's why you can never really turn your back on them..and, I'd say, the full explanation for every shitty bit of theocratic politicking they get into.  Nothing more complicated than that.  They're people who are willing to abandon any principle they have or might have if they want the thing - and they want the thing.

That describes me pretty well and I do not act like any of the Christians I know.

[The Grand Nudger]

People willing to abandon any principle are unlikely to act in any particular way - like I said, you can never turn your back on them. It shouldn't surprise you that people who are like you in that regard don't act like you, or even like christians™?

Sure as shit, we see they and you both don't seek to lead a good life, rather, you seek to make excuses for you or your gods freely willed choices to live a bad one.

[Ahriman]

People willing to abandon any principle are unlikely to act in any particular way - like I said, you can never turn your back on them.   It shouldn't surprise you that people who are like you in that regard don't act like you, or even like christians™?

Sure as shit, we see they and you both don't seek to lead a good life, rather, you seek to make excuses for you or your gods freely willed choices to live a bad one.

Well it's not like anyone deserves a good life in the first place. I mean you could always work for a good life if you wanted to, and you might even succeed, but you don't deserve it.

[The Grand Nudger]

If you say so. I think that speaks more to your own misanthropy than what anyone deserves. This, though, is just another excuse for doing the thing, not a moral defense of the thing.

Waahhh, I want it.
Waaaaah, it was going to happen anyway.
Waaah, it was some jews destiny to get me pie.
Waaaah, people suck.

Let it fly my dude.

[Ahriman]

If you say so.  I think that speaks more to your own misanthropy than what anyone deserves.  This, though, is just another excuse for doing the thing, not a moral defense of the thing.

Waahhh, I want it.
Waaaaah, it was going to happen anyway.
Waaah, it was some jews destiny to get me pie.
Waaaah, people suck.

Let it fly my dude.

I actually don't think people suck, but I still very much want the thing, and I do not care how many people need to suffer in order for me to get the thing, so I guess in that sense I am like a typical Christian, although I wouldn't consider myself one.